SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

That's a very good point Nell perhaps it is easier "to re write the narrative and become the sole victim rather than a perpetrator".

I don't know if I could come face to face with our ES because of what he's destroyed so maybe he feels the same because he's the one who destroyed it all.

I see where you're coming from Rhinestone and I wouldn't turn them away, I'm just not convinced I could deal with it. Realistically for us, the earliest that could happen with our eldest GC would be in 10 years time. I'd be 70, Mr. S. 78.

"Maybe they will be made at their parents for the estrangement. Maybe they will want to understand what happened and will think their parents petty and mean". A distinct possibility and not something I would want to be caught up in, and how could we avoid it?

Questions would be asked and what answers could we, should we give?

I used to imagine them turning up one day and a dear friend said if they did, it might be from a confrontational perspective. She was worried I had a fairy tale ending in my mind that might not be the reality.

I assured her that having been through what we have, I no longer believed in fairy tales.

Got my vaccine yesterday as they took ages 65 and up. Nothing but a sore arm from it.

I feel differently than Smileless and some others about seeing our EGC when they are older. It is not their fault that their parents made a horrible decision to estrange. If they want to see us and get to know us we will welcome it. Maybe I feel differently because I have been doing our genealogy for years and I have made connections with DNA matches that has brought joy . What harm could come to knowing our EGC? They will have their own ideas about things. Maybe they will be mad at their parents for the estrangement. Maybe they will want to understand what happened and will think they’re parents petty and mean. Lots can happen but we will be here to get to know them.

Smileless2012. Totally with you. I read your posts and swear you're reading my mind sometimes. Enough is right. I will never understand how AC can inflict such pain so easily. I sometimes wonder if realising that is what keeps them away for so long - it'd be a terrible thing to have to come back and face what was destroyed. Easier perhaps to re write the narrative and become the sole victim rather than a perpetrator. I don't know, it's been a bad few days, too much ruminating on things I can't change!

It would have been hard for your mum 3nanny, seeing her GS again after 8 years and I agree that such a long time represents too many years that have been missed.

Mr. S. and I were talking about this today. He said he would want the opportunity to see our GC in years to come if they contacted us, but accepts he may well regret that after the event.

I'd prefer not to be in that position to begin with. We've suffered enough as it is and I haven't got the strength or the stomach for any more.

*Armadillo" is estranged from her Mum 3nanny6.

Rhinestone: Your question "Will you make contact with your EGC when they are older? "

For me once the GC are older I hope to have more time with them as they can make their own decisions who they see.

I do validate the views of Smileless2012 saying she would rather not come face to face with two grown men she did not know.
Many years have passed now but my brothers eldest child moved areas with his mother after she divorced my brother.
My own mother missed her GS and apart from a few phone calls and not many visits their was a return to our family after about 8 years of this child. From my mothers perspective myself and even my mothers sister felt that my mother had lost out on too many years without her GS and he was a completely different person, Hard faced of me to say this but my mother would have been better off not having to deal with his return and certain upset was caused within the family.

Armadillo : Hello,

I found your post a little strange are you sure you have posted on the correct thread. This is a thread about estrangement and supporting those who have experienced that.

You sound quite young and I love dogs but I do not see the full connection of puppies and estrangement.
Please correct me if I am making some mistakes here.

Hello!
I do hope my mum took pictures down as she would always put the worst ones up like when I had braces and things.
I think puppies would fix everything. I would love to get a collie because they are clever and would get us all out of the house or maybe a chawouwa.

It would be more than "a little to do" if Mr. S. bought home anything that was alive Yogagirl unless it was cute, fury and very cuddly. I'm thinking along the lines of a puppy which of course would be great.

Sorry to hear about your D's grand father's adopted son. 58 is no age nowadays is it. Well done for making a start on your attic. We probably got rid of more than we should when we moved but due to the circumstances, and all the stuff we had, we got to the point where we were losing the will live.

You're a real trooper 3nanny. It's good that you get to see your GC all be it from a distance when you take food parcels round. Sorry to hear about your neighbour. I hope thegave you a bit of a pick up.

The last time I came across a photo of our ES was when I was looking for some paperwork Nell. I thought we'd put all the photographs together when we moved but a few were missed.

They were primary school photo's; another life a life time ago.

Great news about the vaccine Rhinestoneyou must be relieved. In answer to your question it's a 'no' from me and I suppose it's cowardly but I hope they never make contact with us.

I'd rather they didn't than come face to face with two young men I don't know and be instantly reminded with all that we had taken from us.

Good morning all- Good news is we are getting our first dose of the vaccine tomorrow and I even got my 91 year old mom one also.
I am like Mr. S in that I do look at various sites to see pictures of our EGC. We took care of the oldest for four years and I want to see how he has grown.Mr. R has not sent that last letter that he has had for a year now to his ES. I guess I’m a “ one more try gal” and am urging him to do so.
So my question for all of you is this..... will you make contact with your EGC when they are older?

Sorry to hear about your neighbour passing away 3nanny Hope you felt better after your cup of tea.

I was talking to my DD about the adopted son of her granddad [father's side] Took a look at my emails to find he'd passed away due to a couple of strokes, aged 58. It does make you feel sad.

Hi All, hope everyone is okay. I awoke this morning and was surprised to see how much snow had fallen and it was still snowing heavily I thought the two dogs would dash outside when I opened the door but they sat sniffing the air and stayed inside. I think they are getting a bit old as once upon a time they would have been romping about and having some fun they decided not to.
NellG yes the S.S. being involved means someone can keep an eye on things and they go into the house. I only put food parcels at the doorstep so know very little but it is my way of showing that those children are not forgotten by me and a short glimpse and hello keep me going.

Yogagirl it is about four years since I could really talk to my daughter and have a civilized conversation but I still kept trying. Just over a year ago she turned on me and was so aggressive I kept away from her for quite some time, during that time she was in trouble doing several things and S.S. became involved with her I heard things were not good from my eldest daughter and began taking the food parcels although in the past I had demands from her for food and money so she has struggled a lot. I will never be able to forget the GC and one day when looking for something in a cupboard I came across all the photographs I had put away
and so I took out only two very favorite ones and put them back up somehow it gives some comfort and makes me feel closer to them.
I am having a quiet day today mainly because of the snow and cold but my neighbour on one side has just phoned me and told me the man living on the other side of me died in hospital this morning. I was getting a bit concerned about him as he lives alone although he has a son that is in his bubble and a daughter that always leaves food at his doorstep so I know he has got family . Anyway he has been ill for quite a time and he was taken into hospital just over two weeks ago but I didn't know and so he passed away this morning and now it has left me feeling a bit upset about him. Time for a nice cup of tea I think.

3nanny you've clearly done the right thing in leaving parcels on the doorstep, it is said that carrying on as if nothings happened is the best way to go, and you do get to see your GC, say hello & wave, be it from the doorstep! How lovely is that. Wish I'd done it your way. How long since you were cut out now?

Yes I put all the pictures of my GC away, couldn't bear to look at them. I have put 2 back of me holding each one, but they are behind a small palm on the sideboard in the dinning room, so not right in your face.

Yogagirl - it doesn't seem to matter how much time goes past, they are still everywhere aren't they?

Found some things belonging to my son in the garage earlier, always brings back memories, all good ones form when he was younger. I can be a bit bette these days.

As for the lobsters... I'm with your DD all the way! Ugh!

3nanny6, how strong you are. SS main priority will be to keep the children safe within the family, it's rare they would take them into care if another family member can offer care even when things are really bad. In some ways it's good they are still involved, they are obliged to maintain the children's safety and despite the odd horror story we see in the press they do more often do a good job. But the news never reports the good outcomes. It's so hard to be forced to stand back and let things unfold isn't it? But good to see you've been able to put the photographs back and enjoy the better memories. I hope you have a peaceful and pleasant rest of the weekend

Hello All hope everyone is okay.

I have been reading the posts from everyone and get the feeling how nearly all of you feel the same and have been so enormously hurt by losing your AC and also the GC. To see that some of you cannot look at pictures of your E,AC, and your GC is understandable, I even took down my photos of my GC when my D decided to cut me out of her life. It was
a dark desperate time for me particularly as I had been so involved with the two first children who were only one year apart in age and my D struggled to cope and their father came and went and was not much help.

Moving on from there I have now put back the professionally taken photo of GD1 when she was 6 months old I could not bear not to have it on my cabinet where I could glance at her and think about her when she was so young. I have put back the photo of the two GDs taken together when one was in the nursery and one in school which I bought a lovely silver frame to put it in. So both photos for me are back where they belong as no matter how much heartache I have endured nothing can separate my GC from being in my heart even my daughter cannot do that no matter how she behaves.
I have even taken a few food parcels to my Daughters house
because I don't care if she has little to do with me or she never phones me I will front out any situation with her and although I know she can tell me stay away she could even say I harass her but she doesn't she just takes what I bring into her house, but what I get out of it is the fact one or sometimes two of the GC will also be at the door with her and call out hello to me and wave. They will know I am still around and thinking of them and they have not been forgotten.

I have heard that S.S. are still involved with my daughter
and who knows what the outcomes are with them, my DS
who was with me for those few days was asking me about it
and he says that much of what is happening in her life has been all her own doing and she has only herself to blame.
I told him no matter what happens those children will stay
in the family and nobody will ever take them, to which he agreed although nothing has been said about anything like that but I suppose you just have to prepare yourself for any surprises.

Oh well time to get to the shop to find something interesting to eat, I was quite off my food yesterday but today I am hungry.

Your a lucky lady Smileless in having such a lovely husband, I do envy you.

Sorting out my attic, what a job! My stuff, my 3 AC & my parents. 5 boxes of my estD, a couple of boxes I sorted a bit and put into new boxes, I left the others, but one box had 'baby book' written on it. I gave my 3 AC their baby books when we last moved 15yrs ago, would like to have a look at estD book, would like to keep it, but I won't. She was walking by 9mnths old!

My DD & her H had a little 'to do' yesterday, as he brought home 2 lobsters! She wasn't happy when he showed her and they were still alive! She wouldn't eat them and just had macaroni cheese with the C

It does break you doesn't it Nell, it takes years to put yourself back together again and the legacy is as you've described. Just as our EAC aren't the people we thought they were, we are no longer the people we were before this happened.

There have been times when talking to our DS in Australia when I've told him that we're not the same. That not only are we less trusting and more cynical (how I wish we weren't), we are also more fearful and the biggest fear for each of us, is the thought of losing the other.

The last 3 days must have been difficult for you 3nanny. I'm glad that your son has felt able to go back home and with a baby on the way, fingers crossed that he and his partner can get things back on a better footing.

"we were so close" it is unfathomable isn't it Bridie. I sometimes wonder if we ever were as close as I thought, if he really loved us at all because how can you treat someone so cruelly who did nothing but love and care for you.

I've never been one for photo's out on show Yogagirl. The only one we have is of our DS with one of his dogs which was taken professionally about 4 years ago.

I hadn't thought of that Yogagirl but I think it's more than likely that he never gave a thought to who may look at his FB page.

For me, I love the child that was and is but don't like the man that child has become. My world is safer without him in it.

Thank you for the welcome - it means a lot. I don't know about any of you but this has been something I've found hard to talk about elsewhere, in the early days most people who knew believe that this doesn't happen to good parents. I think we all know it absolutely does and I doubt any of us would claim to be perfect humans. I also think that when this happens we eventually work out that love does not conquer all. Love just makes it hurt more.

Bridie22 - my heart twinged for you when I read your post. You didn't do anything, none of us did. But it seems that being human and fallible and making mistakes (just like everyone else does) is an unforgivable thing for some of our children. I honestly don't know why other than having come to the conclusion that some AC dont want to grow up and do the heavy lifting that sustains relationships. They want us to carry the load forever. I take the approach of Radical Acceptance - ie, it is what it is, I can't change it, now what? So instead of focusing on why my AC doesn't care about me, I try and work on caring about myself and loving him from a distance. I just think life has changed and this generation often dont see family in the same way we do - someone mentioned FOG, as in fear, obligation and guilt. if these AC see relationships with their parents/families in those terms what hope is there? Equally, with all the love in the world I don't want a relationship with someone who feels fearful, obligated and guilty towards me. I think I'm worth more than that.

Yogagirl - Same. I keep a picture of the child I knew. It reminds me that things were good and we were happy. Life changes but memories are a good cushion. I have seen pictures of my GD - she is the image of me ( tongue in cheek, it makes me feel that they can run but they can't hide...every time they look at their daughter they have to see me! I just hope they treat her better).

Have as good a day as possible lovely people, and thanks again for your warmth and understanding. The world is a much better place for it.

Bridie22

Such hurt and sadness NellG and Smileless, I still cannot process that fact that my daughter hasn't even set a message to me through all this pandemic, she cut me off with no reasons given and yes , its brutal and a very cruel punishment .
I just don't understand how this has happened, we were so close, I have spent hours trying to work out how I have upset her xbut can't work it out.
Sending love and strengthx

As do we all Birdie

It seems to be so pandemic now [is that the right word?]
That our AC, that were loved & adored, that we would have & did do anything for, feel the need to go to war with us in the most brutal way they can think of. Why?

I loved the child that was, but don't like the child that is.....sums my feelings also Yogagirl.

Just a thought S your son's f.i.l left his FB open for all to see, was that perhaps for you!?

I love the child that was, but I don't like the child that is. I find it enormously hard to say I don't love her anymore, as I adored the child that was.

My DD asked me why I kept photos of estranged D up, especially the one at the top of the stairs, [3 big professional photos of my then 2, 5 & 8yr olds], I answered that the photos are of the child I loved & that loved me back, the photos dotted round the house of loving, happy times.

Smileless I never want to see pictures of my lost GC, too painful! best to avoid. My hope went 6.5yrs ago, that's how long I held onto it, but as soon as I let go, I felt tons better.

Welcome Nell

Will read rest of posts later, quite a few to read!

Such hurt and sadness NellG and Smileless, I still cannot process that fact that my daughter hasn't even set a message to me through all this pandemic, she cut me off with no reasons given and yes , its brutal and a very cruel punishment .
I just don't understand how this has happened, we were so close, I have spent hours trying to work out how I have upset her xbut can't work it out.
Sending love and strengthx