Estrangement "is perhaps as common as divorce in certain segments of society"

Why do psychologists always say that estrangement is caused by toxic parents!!! I never got on with my mother, she was never abusive but very cold towards me and I never knew why. It was years later I discovered that as a child my mother was sent off to live with her grandparents. My mother didnt have any love from her parents so she didnt know how to love me. I never held it against her or cut her off as it wasnt her fault.
As Rosecarmel said get a bigger frame and look at the whole picture.

Starblaze

Abusive people don't get to be happy. They spend too much time being judgemental and offending themselves on purpose. Their whole lives are a competition of trying to one up the whole world. Underneath they are just a big ball of stinking shame that they are desperately trying to cover with plastic flowers. Picking out scapegoats to dump all their bad feeling on but they just never run out of bad feelings, their negativity is limitless.

They don't know how to be happy or even content. They can't move on or let things go. They can't even take a single, solitary step towards finding peace.

We can in our individual ways

I have tears streaming down my cheeks .. Sad as it is .. But lost all composure at the plastic flowers ..

Abusive people don't get to be happy. They spend too much time being judgemental and offending themselves on purpose. Their whole lives are a competition of trying to one up the whole world. Underneath they are just a big ball of stinking shame that they are desperately trying to cover with plastic flowers. Picking out scapegoats to dump all their bad feeling on but they just never run out of bad feelings, their negativity is limitless.

They don't know how to be happy or even content. They can't move on or let things go. They can't even take a single, solitary step towards finding peace.

We can in our individual ways

Sounds more intuitive than not feeling rosecarmel

I feel like a bit of a not feeling person because I don't recall being devastated by any estrangement- I kind of love everyone enough to be like ok with it, seeing it from a place of well you raised me two feet or buried me at sea level, so now I have to do the rest of the raising, to bring me up to where I need to be-

rosecarmel I too like the way you speak and especially the message, even when you leave me flabbergasted. I don't think anyone has a chance of telling you who you are a

I don't think we are allowed to be angry according to certain quarters.

Stick up for ourselves bad

Swear when talking about abuse bad

Give someone a taste of their own medicine bad

Apologise for losing control for a moment admission of general badness

That last one is my favourite.

The one thing that we have to take forward after our childhoods is that no one else gets to tell us who we are.

Starblaze

Rosecarmel

Your last paragraph. I do that sometimes and it makes me sad too. My mum could bring out a side of me that I hated. I think that's as a result of gaslighting. I want to be who I am, not become what others need me to be to feel better about themselves.

You're warmth is evident, not from being gaslit, but a result of uncovering your true nature- Therefore, you're open to change, to being what you need to be and when, and not dependent upon others wants-

Ollie Mathews: NYC/Tri-State, Boston, Detroit-

There are others, could be any one of them-

He could be, in part, a piece of a regional thing, the way millions of us were spoon fed WTF for breakfast while lunch was lovingly packed in a brown bag then tossed across the room for you to catch-

No matter where you went, your siblings room, a friend's house, school, the store, the playground, the beach- Anywhere you went there were edges-

Leave those regions .. then you're met with different edges- Having traveled and lived "on the road" I have encountered them- From higher learning, sciences, the arts, agriculture, restaurants and bars/pubs-

Not to mention spiritual schools of thought and groups as well as corporate culture -

I'm this > < close to getting up and going again .. My bags are halfway packed ..

OceanMama

There is a long running thread on Mumsnet for adult children of abuisve families - But We Took You to Stately Homes.

It was started by a poster who attempted to raise issues she was having with her mother, present day and from her childhood. Her mother’s response was to cease their relationship. The title of the thread is My Mother Has Cut Me Out of Her Life.

If you haven’t already come across it, it may be worth a read.

OceanMama so much research is being done on this subject now and I'm glad that's included too. You see some heartbreaking things.

When I read about parents estranging cbildren, I see the word disowned used a lot. Find that a strange word to use really. Especially over things like sexuality or choosing not to follow religion. You can't take children back for a refund.

It's nice to see some discussion, even if brief, about parents who estrange their children. I always wish there was more about that.

Starblaze and rosecarmel -- You both talk about the sadness. I agree. It is so sad that so many dysfunctional thinkers call themselves Parents.

Here's another review for the article -- "And you wonder where these kids get the idea that cutting off contact with their (non-abusive) parents is a good thing to do."

As I do not identify as an EP/EGP I guess I'll have to hope that someone who is can actually read the whole article and explain to Me how it encourages AC to cut off non-abusive parents...

rosecarmel -- Thank you. I have spent a lot of time trying to understand human behavior in general.

If some people think I am mentally 'unwell' now, they should have met "train-wreck" Me. She was a gem who sounded much like Ollie Mathews...

At a certain point you get used to the gas-lighting (because it comes across as pathetic), all the DARVO 'stuff' and my personal fave -- Projection.

You might communicate strangely, and with that in mind -- I try to keep that in mind with anyone I am speaking to... What I do evaluate is whether someone has 'rough edges' or is just plain abusive... I've always firmly placed you in "rough edge" territory and while blunt, I tend to think you very fair.

Apparently some EP's elsewhere also found this article and with the usual predictability took nothing away from it except that it was 'blaming mothers' and didn't take into account the child's 'part' and what they did or didn't do. Le sigh...

"She wrote that not all mothers are loving and we EP find that not all adult children grow up to be loving, either. This is what I consider a type of groupthink and finger pointing." -- Like that point has some validity/relevance. First off, unloved people grow up to be unloving. My Golden Sis is an example...

"She blames the parent but I was thinking that it takes some kind of love to be upset and dumbfounded. Otherwise the parent wouldn’t really care too much." -- Anyone can be 'upset' by something, the question is, for what reason is the person upset?

The dumb-founded part I always laugh at. It says to Me, "You are SO out of tune about how the people around you are truly feeling to the point of, when they walk away, you are going but, but, but... WHYYYY???" -- There's is a huge read-flag hint right there.

My fave was an EP lamenting (paraphrased) -- "I could see her getting more and more distant and when we did talk she seemed quick to hostility... She sent some e-mails to me complaining about some stuff but I never thought it would lead to estrangement."

Rosecarmel

Your last paragraph. I do that sometimes and it makes me sad too. My mum could bring out a side of me that I hated. I think that's as a result of gaslighting. I want to be who I am, not become what others need me to be to feel better about themselves.

I'm truly grateful for being able change out the family estrangement "frames" in the different areas where I've placed them- In the process of changing them out, I get a glimpse of the bigger picture, before closing off another section to process-

The last time I changed a frame, and the bigger picture appeared, I realized that I would be willing to give up my own life in exchange for the rewriting of my mother's life, so that she and her own mother could have had healthier relationships- And it was temporarily, immensely cathartic to experience that imagined amalgam of love between the 3 of us-

Against the advice of those whose applied knowledge is wise and I've relied on, I chose to use this period of global chaos to see things more clearly- And have-

HolyHannah, your ever-changing identity, cemented convictions and downright divine interest in the mind, have been a guide -- a hearing aid, amplifying so many things with distinct clarity- Thank you, with gratitude-

I know I communicate strangely, and with that in mind ..
Someone was talking in a group the other day and didn't receive an immediate reply so then began to become unsettled and what they said when they opened their mouth sounded like what might have been a parental echo, of something possibly said to them so very long ago- And I went from upset to saddened, like 0mph to 100mph, in seconds-

When I first estranged I was utterly devastated. The grief was spectacular. I knew it was the right thing, as mentioned in the article, I knew my mum didn't like me and was pretty sure she didn't love me. Also as mentioned in the article, I spent a couple of decades trying so hard to fix it.

The grief was for what I never had which I didn't know at the time.

I soon realised that I felt better in myself, despite the grief. I had this huge sense of peace.

For some people I suppose that feeling of peace is enough but I knew I needed to heal too. I finally had room to start that journey. You can't heal while someone continues to cut you.

The one remaining issue is the ongoing harassment from different sources. When that stops, all ties to any remaining hurt and grief will be gone. I hope the campaign against me ends soon.

I love the last line...

Estrangement is a last-ditch effort to stop parental abuse. It gives you room to heal, although it doesn’t heal per se. It never comes out of nowhere.