Hope For Estranged Grandparents

But emotional abuse, like sexual abuse is is very hard to prove in court and abusive people will use that to gain access to children. Abusers are very good at looking innocent and wonderful and that is how they get away with abusing their zchildren for as long as they did and that is how they will get over the final hurdle in court. Because all circumstances are different.

But all circumstances are different.

Smileless -- "And don't pretend HolyHannah that P's rights are mostly about what's best for their children when that isn't always the case." -- Of course it isn't.

But the grand-parents still are not the "official deciders" of what is best for someone else's children, their grand-children included.

No one has yet to address the core issue here. If the parents have decided that a relationship with one or both sets GP's who has the right/authority to tell the parents they are "wrong"?

When both sides claim the other is the issue, it should then be up to the parents to decide the best interests of their minor children.

It doesn't matter, unless there is actual abuse going on in our family unit whether our 'parents' "agree" with our choices or not. We get to decide if raising our children "their religion" is best for them. It wasn't good for Us so NO, we aren't going to raise our children the same way.

They call that "abuse". We call it, "Making our own adult decisions just like you did."

Because one side made it clear that regardless of how we choose to raise our children they were going to teach them "a proper religion" and those parents were told they would never meet said children then... But We are abusing them and our children by denying contact according to THEM.

Yes, the greatest of these is love.

And the greatest of these is Love.

Spot on smileless.

Love and security are essential to children Hithere. GP's may not be as essential as oxygen, water, housing and education, but what price can we put on love?

I'm sure you're right and children have happy childhoods and lives without their GP's. I certainly hope so as ours will, in all probability never know us or us them.

That said they never knew us so thankfully have not experienced what some GC do. No longer being able to see the GP's they know and love and left wondering why, and perhaps asking themselves if it's their fault, if they did something wrong or if their GP's just don't love them anymore.

For something to be damaging to a generation of kids means that that something is essential as oxygen, water, housing and education.

GPs are not that essential.
Kids can have a happy childhood and life without grandparents.

Perhaps HOLY HANNAH If you’d had grandparents or some others who had your best interests at heart and had intervened to help you in your distress you’d view things differently??

Don’t get me wrong holy Hannah abuse of power is so wrong and being on the wrong side of that leaves you a changed person. But I also think to see injustice and abuse of power and do nothing is wrong too.

Thanks for those posts Chewbacca; very informative; there's so much we don't know isn't there.

And don't pretend HolyHannah that P's rights are mostly about what's best for their children when that isn't always the case.

Some of the reasoning on this subject is So unreasonable...yes damaging...to a generation of children that deserve much better Granniesunite well said.

Yes. They can. But Realistically they don’t.
They don’t do it for parents. They would never do it for GPs.
As I said. I’ve known people to keep quiet and just move. You can’t stop them. It’s for the good of the family, jobs, opportunities etc. The parents aren’t then expected to travel. So there’s no enforcement.

Often it is, though.

Granniesunite -- Any concern about the mental/emotional well-being of the parent(s)?

"Some of the reasoning on this subject is So unreasonable and damaging ...yes damaging ...to a generation of children that deserve much better."

Grand-parents that don't care about the impact on their children of how a court case would hurt them are showing the very reason they are likely cut off. They didn't care about their children when they were raising them and they still don't care about how their actions hurt/damage them now.

My generation did deserve better and many of Us didn't get it, so the only thing we can do is not pass on the dysfunction. But if 'winning', even to your detriment is "good for the grand-children" in your opinion? Fine.

Just don't pretend that GP's rights are mostly about what's "best for the grand-children" when it often isn't.

Thanks Chewbacca.

The Court’s Powers to Enforce a Contact Order
If a court is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that there has been a breach of a contact order, and that there is no reasonable excuse for the breach, they may make an enforcement order. An enforcement order requires the party in breach to carry out between 40 and 200 hours of unpaid work, which will be monitored by the probation service. If breach of the contact order has led to financial loss – for example a cancelled holiday - an application may also be made to the court for financial compensation.
An application for an enforcement order, or for financial compensation, is made using form C79, which may also be downloaded from the HMCS website. The application may be made to the court which made the contact order or to any court which has the power to deal with family cases.

The court also has the power to find that an individual is in contempt of court for failing to comply with a contact order. If a party persistently breaches a contact order they may be held to be in contempt of court and could be committed to prison or fined.

It would be advisable to seek legal advice about your situation before making an application. The Citizens Advice Bureau should be able to provide free legal advice about the steps to take following breach of a contact order.

Source: www.courtroomadvice.co.uk

The phrase ‘All My Eye and Betty Martin’ comes to mind.

Only as NONNIE, SMILELESS, AND MISS A, realise it’s far more serious than that.

Some of the reasoning on this subject is So unreasonable and damaging ...yes damaging ...to a generation of children that deserve much better.

Love will always win over hate. That’s why some grandparents will persevere. To their detriment at times? yes.

But the emotional well being of the grandchild is paramount and that is enough to keep plodding on.

There have been a couple of examples of family court judges sending people to prison for deliberately ignoring their orders. Although it doesn’t happen very often, as judges prefer to find another way to deal with matters where possible, family judges can and do send people to prison for breaching their orders – this is not a criminal conviction, but all civil (non-criminal) courts have a power to enforce their orders by committing the person who has broken it to prison. The family court is no different.

Source www.transparencyproject.org.uk

I’ve actually never personally heard of any consequences for breaking a CAO. And that’s including between two biological parents.

OK Smileless

Who said it was true Starblaze? Parents don't go to prison for withholding contact from the other parent.

If o parent has gone to prison for withholding contact with a grandparent, it's just not true.

Thanks for that Bibbity as it says "generally the police wont get involved" so it's not a given that they wont which must have been in the case that Nonnie mentioned.

I don't know about there being a scare tactic, it would appear that there are situations where the police will get involved but it's not general practice.

Ah, yes.
Probably so, thinking about it.

MissA think it covers a few things, who they are to live with, who they spend time with, when and where etc

I thought w child arrangement order is to allow someone (family, maybe also friend?) to bring up someone else's child.