The 'Perception Filter'...

I think estrangements are usually much more complicated than how a child was raised. Parent blaming needs to stop. There can be so many reasons someone is estranged. When people say, "Oh, it must be because...", I think it's because they are looking for a reason that reassures themselves it can't happen to them.

I also think blaming the spouse of the EAC is altogether wrong. Our adult children make their own decisions, regardless of the input of anyone else in their life. It's not the fault of the spouse at all. If the EAC is influenced by the spouse, it's because they let them.

And what of parents who make the decision to estrange their own child? It happens, even sometimes without the kind of pressing reasons we might understand.

PetitFromage said -- Hannah, my dear, it is obvious from your threads and your posts that you are in a lot of pain. Families can be complicated and the scars can run deep and be difficult to heal, whether you are an EP or an EAC.

I don't have any answers, but I do believe that forgiveness is better for your own peace of mind, if you can manage it - and I know that it is not always easy.

I don't know your circumstances but, please, if the past has been miserable, don't let it spoil your future too. Try to come to terms with what is, or what has been, and set yourself free.

Perception can view this comment two ways...

It is a genuine attempt to comfort and sound caring.

OR

The other perception, when hearing the opener of "Hannah, my dear..." is to think anything that follows might be condescending/biased and/or inaccurate.

"it is obvious from your threads and your posts that you are in a lot of pain." -- I am not 'in pain' the way I was before getting healthy.

"if the past has been miserable, don't let it spoil your future too. Try to come to terms with what is, or what has been, and set yourself free." -- I've already done all that.

"I do believe that forgiveness is better for your own peace of mind, if you can manage it..." Forgiveness is good under the right circumstances, but your mention of "if you can manage it" could be construed as you saying I am not able to 'forgive' when it's appropriate.

I grew up in a 'home' where true forgiveness never happened because those demanding the apologies were the abuser(s) looking for absolution. And as much as I was the perfect little Scapegoat child, I couldn't 'forgive' my mom's abuse ENOUGH to make her feel 'good' about HER.

Hoping you have a sunny day too PF.

@yorkie - I am so sorry. Do you have any other children? Is she in touch with any other family members? Was it a phased withdrawal or did she just leave and that was it? In any event, it all sounds terribly upsetting.

Thanks you Smile and Star for your posts.

Wishing everybody a sunny day

PetiteFromage and Yorkie I am so sorry for your difficult situations and I am glad you still hold the doors open for your daughters as hard as it must be.

PS I've pm'd you PF

As always, a lovely thoughtful post PF. I hadn't realised that your D's life outside of the family, which includes his parents, was still being restricted by your s.i.l. It's good to know that she finds joy in her children and that you remain in constant contact.

I'm so sorry for your situation yorkie and know how painful it can be. Even when we witness it first hand, it's still difficult to comprehend just how controlling and manipulative some can be with their partners.

To reply to Holy.....My daughter moved out of home (no arguments) and moved in with boyfriend when she was in her early 20's.
I expected her to 'fly' from the nest at some point. I think its healthy for children to leave home when the time is right for them.
They have been married now for 14 years. Happily? Ive no idea as we have had no contact for most of that time. I have tried to talk to/meet her but her now husband makes sure she doesnt have the time (they have their own business). He makes sure that they are always busy elsewhere. You would have to know him to understand his behaviour I think.
My husband didnt realise what was happening back then, but I kept quiet about things and it was only when I pointed certain things out that he agreed that there appeared to be a lot of control from her partner.
So daughter is now almost 42 years old, married, no children as far as I know. I havnt seen her for over 10 years. I have tried to build some bridges with no success.

@yorkie - my sympathies to you. It is heart breaking and my situation is very similar to yours.

My DD met someone at university and gradually distanced from/cut off all of her family and friends. He took over every aspect of her life and wanted to be with her 24/7. She took me on a weekend break and he was in contact all the time, constantly texting, calling etc.

DD is now married to the BF, now my SIL, and has two adorable children. She did not tell us about the marriage or about her first DC until she was 14 months old. She finds joy in her children but she doesn't see anyone outside the house, apart from her parents in law. Lockdown has not affected her, as her life is the same as before, as she told me.

Anyway, what I meant to say is that your DD was very young, even younger than mine, when she estranged, but now we are reconciled with our DD (although she is till estranged from her sisters and friends). She is in touch on a daily basis and the love has not died, although it is taking and will take me a long time to come to terms with it all. Baby steps, as they say.

I think sometimes our DC need to step away from us to find themselves and we just have to accept it and let them go, agonising though it is, in the. hope and expectation that they will come back, as I am sure that your DD will, in time.

Smileless, I think you are very brave and patient to keep returning to this thread!

We watch a lot on Netflix to distract us from the news Starblaze. Find a good series and binge watch which is great but then we have to find another one.

Hetty58 -- It's that much harder when you have diagnosed mental illnesses like me and that gets waved as the totality of any family 'issues'. Yet over and over I hear/get told, "It's our kids mental illness that caused them too estrange." What a nice little bow to put on top.

If I were to defend myself more then laughing and walking away, it would be the "delusional rants" of a nut-job.

I might be diagnosed and own My mental illness but just because they haven't been diagnosed officially makes THEM "mentally healthy" in their mind/perception.

Maybe they don't want to see their part because if they too sought help, then THEY would be the same as Me, 'mentally ill' and then THAT could no longer be used as the excuse/reason we are No Contact.

And they would rather fall on the throne from GoT then lower themselves to being 'the same' as Me. They are superior/'better' and I need to know/stay in my place.

Pantglas2, "why would anyone not accept someone’s honestly held views and seek to badger them into revealing chapter and verse of their innermost feelings"

Precisely. I disagree with the assertion that the estrangement can be due to an OH, but does not matter what I think. No need to badger, state opinion and accept that others may disagree. Again, free will.

Smileless, something has shifted - You might be sharing more of what you've privately considered all along or perhaps something has recently occurred that's causing additional concern-

Or something else completely-

But whatever happened, your latest description doesn't match what you've shared in the past-

Pointing this out isn't badgering- Its taking notice of change- You've communicated what you think and I'm communicating back-

Why don't people understand or realise the reasons for distancing ourselves? Why is it our problem and not theirs?

It's quite possible to love a parent deeply - yet dislike them intensely and distrust them too.

Why would I want to expose my own children (other than rarely, briefly and well supervised) to a destructive and poisonous grandparent?

She was mentally unwell but unaware of it and convinced that I was an awkward character!

Yes good thanks Smileless, watching Lost on my new Fire Stick with my cat. So much cheaper than Sky and a good distraction from the news.

It's what they do Pantglassad and you've hit the nail on the head there "to satisfy some deep seated dissatisfaction in their own lives”

Definitely not, Smileless. I am not trying to “satisfy some deep seated dissatisfaction“ in my life. I think you are lying. It’s as simple as that really.

If projecting negative emotions and ascribing nefarious intentions onto others' makes someone feel better I'm always around for that.

I've been called/accused of being sooo many things here. Some of them are even true.

It's what they do Pantglas and you've hit the nail on the head there "to satisfy some deep seated dissatisfaction in their own lives".

I mean, no, of course it doesn’t need to make sense to me.

But when you’ve been posting for, what has it been Smileless, 6 or 7 years, maintaining your estrangement story with unwavering consistency, and then you suddenly change such a massive detail such as your son actually being in a controlling and coercive relationship punishable under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015 from out of nowhere, then expect people to...not be able to make sense of it.

Again, why have you not contacted any relevant authorities regarding the safety of your son and grandchildren?

This is beginning to look like hounding now.....why would anyone not accept someone’s honestly held views and seek to badger them into revealing chapter and verse of their innermost feelings to satisfy some deep seated dissatisfaction in their own lives?

It’s abhorrent to read and unkind to say the least.

Yes I'm absolutely fine Starblaze; are you OK?

Are you OK Smileless?

It doesn't have to make sense to you does it.

I just had to read back the comments to understand what you meant Smileless.

But you have said that you wouldn’t want to re-establish a relationship with him because what has happened has been too painful for you and that too much has happened. That there is no trust. You have said that openly on the forum for years. That just doesn’t make any sense if your son is in as abusive a relationship as you say he is. I mean, you are now claiming for the first time after all these years of posting, that your son is a victim of abuse severe enough to put his wife in prison. And you say that what has happened to him has been too painful for you? What about for him?

Again, why have you not contacted any relevant authorities regarding the safety of your son and grandchildren?