SUPPORT for all living with the pain of estrangement

@Pantglas - thank you very much for your post. You have been an inspiration to me, as you have walked the same path but are ahead of me, a veritable 'Tom Tom'!

Oh, PF I think you are doing well to keep your snout out (I have to grin at the phrasing) but if it was me I would be thinking, 'but my DD deserves more than this' and fuming away inside. But of course only they can decide what they want or will put up with.

Hello pantglas your description of yourself going wow and gosh brought a scene from Mrs Brown to mind. DH and I have been watching the various series on iPlayer recently and there's one episode where Mrs B has been responding to digs from a posh friend with, 'that's nice'. Later she mentions she has had elocution lessons in the past. The friend asks, rather pointedly, if they worked. Mrs replies, 'yes, I used to say F* off, now I say, That's nice!'
DH have decided we're using that as code henceforth whenever someone says something we think is deserving of a rude remark but need to refrain.

hugshelp you are naughty

That made me smile too PF and I agree that you're doing well to keep your snout out.

Going back to what you asked me about ES's wedding, they decided to marry abroad because she'd cut her parents off and didn't want to get married in the UK.

ES didn't want to get married without us being there so asked if we'd go abroad with them. As we had such a lovely villa in Florida we suggested we go there as if nothing else it would help keep costs down.

They knew she and I would need a taxi on the day to get to the venue as ES and Mr. S. spent the night before the wedding in a hotel. We booked the limo as a surprise and I can still remember the look on her face and the hug she gave me when it arrived.

I hope you've all enjoyed the lovely weather. We decided to have a take away and as Mr. S. loves pizza (I'm not a big fan) that's what we decided to have.

He 'phoned the order through and they said if we got it delivered it would take about an hour, or half an hour if we collected it, so Mr. S. said he'd collect it.

It's no more than a 5 minute walk but Mr. S. decided he'd go on his bike and put the pizza boxes on their side so they'd fit in his saddle bag. When I opened the boxes they looked like road kill; I was not impressed.

Smileless -- There's a difference between you and I.

You were "not impressed" and added an 'angry face' over pizza...

My 'man-child' Husband would likely do a similar thing...

The difference is, I would have giggled, shook my head and said, "Bob (not his name) I love you and I can see your 'best effort' here... THIS is a MESS. Good thing pizza tastes good regardless of what it looks like and I'm glad I didn't have to cook. Thanks Babe." And then we'd all eat the mangled pizza.

He and I would both know He didn't "do well" on the 'delivery' but We always turn to the positive. If being a Scapegoat Child ever had a positive outcome? It's the fact We were taught/indoctrinated to believe even the crappiest gift/'thing' should be 'enjoyed and praised' because We didn't even deserve a "mess" of a pizza.

You and I shared 'a pizza'. I enjoyed mine.

What a strange post HolyHannah

You don't know me like the regulars on here so you won't be familiar of the way I re tell the funny stories about myself and Mr. S. and how I use the the GN smileys.

We'v been married just 2 months short of 40 years; we know how to turn the negatives into positives and I'm talking about real negatives here, not pizza that looks like road kill.

Road kill that we ate and giggled about off an on for rest of the evening.

Thanks hugs for your comments and your brilliant suggestion.

Smileless, how kind of you and Mr S to contribute towards making the wedding so special. It sounds as though there is a bit of a pattern with your DIL. Maybe she thinks that as she has no parents on the scene, then your ES shouldn't have any either. I couldn't help laughing at the 'road kill' Hannah I think Smileless is joking !!!

Mr. S.'s pizza looked more like road kill than mine PF because it had rather a lot of tomato puree on it.

Glad everyone is enjoying the hot weather and squashed pizza.

I didn't get a follow up or the rest of the email. If it was something she was thinking of sending, I am guessing she would have finished by now if that is what she was going to do.
I'm just going to let it go.

I've been thinking a lot lately about a comment I made elsewhere. That some people are deliberately abusive and some people just have abusive traits that they don't know or realise they are doing. Obviously the second kind can be helped. The second kind, you can reason with.

My mum was the first kind, she knew some of her behaviour was abusive because she lied to cover it up. If it wasn't deliberate, she would not need to lie. I think after a time she convinced herself that her lies were truth because she had told them so often.

There were some things that she was honest about at first but later lied about because when the ager faded away, she realised it made her look bad. Bear in mind, she could drag her anger out over long periods of time. She could hold a grudge against someone for years, even if she was thewone in the wrong.

Ultimately my mum wanted to project an image of being perfect and innocent and utterly blameless in any situation, so her bad behaviour had to be later glossed over. I watched her lose good friends over that one. She got to keep the not so nice friends who were happy for her to change history because it didn't have a negative impact on them personally. Also they joined in with the same sort of behaviour, so of course it benefited them to have another around who is happy to gloss over bad behaviour. You gloss over my bad behaviour and I will gloss over yours, sort of set up.

These were the people who hounded me when I first went No Contact. My mum encouraging her friends to bully her own daughter. Pretty vile really to encourage your friends to bully anyone.

This is how and why I think my children will never estrange me. Now I am a grown, sensible, accountable adult, I have no need to lie. Without the lie, I can apologise and be forgiven.

Just some thoughts I have been having lately I needed to get out somewhere supportive.

Have a good day all.

I think that people who are deliberately abusive are much harder to help because they derive enjoyment from what they're doing. Those with abusive traits possibly easier to help but perhaps with the right type of intervention, there's help for both.

"This is how an why I think my children will never estrange me" I sincerely hope you're right Starblaze we'd have said the same thing 8 years ago; obviously we couldn't say it now.

That’s the thing isn’t it Smileless - the person doing the No Contact gets to decide.

No matter how good your parenting skills, if your child chooses to cut you out of their life for whatever reason or even no reason, then that’s what happens. As someone said on one of these threads, everyone has a right to remove people from their lives as they see fit.

You, as the parent have no say in the matter, regardless of how honest and apologetic you are, if they choose not to accept, your relationship ceases to exist.

That's the tragedy isn't it Pantglas. If I had a £ for every time I've seen a non estranged P say they just can't imagine their AC ever estranging them, I'd be quite well off.

I think you've taken me out of context ladies. Not very reassuring given the thread we are on.

"Think" is not the same as "know". The context I am saying that in only applies to the content of that post of mine. I think my children will never estrange me for the same reasons I estranged. My odds are good.

I think my odds are also better for other scenarios. For example: unfortunately my children witnessed me being emotionally abused because I was too naive to know what it was back then. The plus side of that is that they know how to recognise abusive behaviour. When they later asked me about things they had seen because they felt uncomfortable, I explained that, no it's not OK and why. My children have also learnt from me the good example of walking away from toxic relationships.

Of course in general I could never know that I won't be estranged.

I continuously work towards being the best I can be as a parent and I keep my mind open.

You both should know that though Pantsglas and Smileless due to what I said on the subject the last few days. I wouldn't have thought so deeply about my answers if I didn't know it is possible. I will probably blame myself though whatever the reason.

I don't think you were taken out of context Starblaze

Whatever the reason as Pantglas posted, it is the person doing the no contact who gets to decide and as much as anyone understandably hopes it will never happen them, you can never be certain it wont.

I understand that someone with abuse in their past can, and often does find it easier to spot an abuser but having said that, it didn't help me spot that our ES's wife is one.

So you don't "know" I wasn't taken out of context Smileless lol

No I don't know you were taken out of context and you don't appear to know if you were either, as you posted "I think you've taken me out of context ladies"

I was joking Smileless but I can't tell if you are

I thought you were being serious Starblaze.

I laughed

well as I'm sure you agree that putting 'lol' at the end of a post can be ambiguous.

OK Smileless

Look at this fabulous sky as seen from our roof terrace, isn’t it beautiful

Smileless, that is truly stunning!

Did anyone have a thunder storm last night? About half an hour before we got one, our dogs were charging around like a couple of nutters!! I said to Mr. S. it was because there was a storm coming and sure enough when it 'hit' they calmed down.

It's a great photo isn't it PF taken by Mr. S. on his Ipad. There was a beautiful rainbow on the other side but the definition wasn't good enough for a photo.

I've just seen the Red Arrows fly past; what a fantastic sight[smile}

Great news today, a letter from the site owners confirming we can go to our lodge on Saturday; can't wait.

I've just been thinking how lovely it would be to be able to out this evening for a meal despite the fact that we'll be able too, after July 4th, and wont be doing so for sometime anyway.