Estrangement from the other perspective, what's it like from the 'other' side?

ExD, I'm so sorry about your (apparently) strained relationship with your GD and her family. You may not want to discuss this now, but just for yourself, ate there/have there been any issues between you/DH and GD/GSIL that may have led to this situation?

As far as your questions is concerned, I was never estranged from any GP and my GGPs were all dead by the time I was born. But my MGF (maternal grandfather) was also deceased , and I heard enough about him that I often wished I could have known him. Then again, like Smileless, I've heard of estranged GC reaching out to their EGPs when they grew up and wanting a relationship w/ them. So, IMO, it depends on a number of factors - what the GC hear about the GPs, how curious they are about them, how much they learn to trust/not trust their parents' judgment as they get older, etc. As for GC who see their GPs briefly and infrequently, as in your case... IDK... That might be enough for some kids, others might want to see their GPs more and try to arrange that as they grow up. I don't think anyone can give you a definitive answer about this. Hugs!

I had a semi estranged relationship with my maternal grandmother (never met my grand father as he passed when my mom was young). My maternal grandmother had my mom at 17 or 18 and really enjoyed drugs. My mom was taken away and raised by her grandmother and my grandmother went on to have 5 more kids. 3 of which were also taken away by the state. For some reason, even though she was never a mom to my mom, my mom had guilt over not having a relationship with her. So every August we got lunch with her for her birthday. It exposed me and my kid brother to lots of things that kids shouldn’t be exposed to and I honestly think we would have been better off without that once a year lunch.

On the flip side, I was incredibly close to my paternal grandparents. They were divorced but my grandma lived with us for about 8 years starting when I was 4. I thought that was just the best.

I don’t know if this helps you. But not having a strong relationship with one of my grandparents didn’t cripple me. I grew up to be a self sufficient adult with a family of my own

I'm pleased that your mother was eventually able to have a relationship with her GD rosecarmel.

Over the course of my professional careers as slacker and navel gazer can attest that no imagined scenario ever met my great expectations .. but that doesn't mean that I didn't foresee trouble ahead in relationships or be pleasantly surprised when things went better than I imagined they might ..

I dream- As did my mother- But didn't dwell- She reflected- And after many years of not seeing one of her grand daughters, who was small the last time she saw her, she reunited with my mother when she turned 18- And she was with us when my mother died-

I'm sure that's true in some cases but there are GC who when they're old enough seek out GP's they never knew, so for some establishing contact with EGP's is important.

Notanan has it exactly right. It’s not about the ‘role’ of grandparent it’s about the entire family system. If the family system itself is broken, well, there’s not much to miss. I didn’t know my biograndad very well, he was mentally ill and had only sporadic contact with my dad. I never missed him, felt disappointed or had any sort of illusions about what role he might have played in my life. He lived on the opposite side of the country, visited maybe once when I was very small, and I didn’t think about him unless someone brought him up. So it goes for EGP, I don’t think that children who have never met or don’t remember meeting someone worry very much about why they don’t know them.

You cant just pluck the children out and have it have the value of grandparents, where grandparents would normally be where the wider family usually congregate.

Wider family is also about role modelling adult family/love/relationships to the child. Its not centred on the child.
Seeing your parents loved and being loved. Without that, IMO its really not worth it. Youre just role modelling the disfunction: thats all I remember about being "dutifly" brought to see adult relatives that didnt have a relationship with my parents. Didnt feel like family if its just about the child going in isolation.

I was brought to visit relatives that my parents werent friendly with too and wish they hadnt bothered.

The point of relatives is being part of a group: seeing your parents with their parents/siblings/cousins. Thats most of the value of grandparents: The intergenerational group. Its not about the child & grandparent 1:1 relationship in intense isolation, its being part of that group.

If the childs parent isnt close to the grandparent/GGP/Aunt/Uncle etc. They wont get the grandparent/GGP/Aunt/Uncle experience if the family structure isnt there.

Not knowing a family member who died before you were born and could never have known, isn't the same as not knowing a family member you weren't allowed to know.

We don't know our GC but we miss not knowing them.

I didnt know any of my great grandparents or half my grandparents as they died before I was born.

I didnt miss them. You dont miss what you dont know

If they were loved an appreciated in their life time they knew Alexa have don't worry, your dad would have known how much he meant to you, and still does.

Smileless, I wish there was a way to get in touch with dead people and tell them how much they were loved and appreciated. But there isn't.

That's lovely Alexa, it sounds as if your mum appreciated the importance of older people in your life when you were young.

I'm sure your "grandparents substitutes" had lovely memories of your visits too.

My grandparents all died long before I was born however When I was very young my mother took me two doors along to be with three old maiden ladies. I loved going there and I can remember them and their jokes and their house to this day.

We moved to another part of the town and I got out of touch with them to a great extent although my mother sent me over to visit every so often with a basket of flowers and cake,But I was an older child by then and had chums my own age.

My thoughts about these grandparent substitutes are some of the pleasantest memories I have even although for many years I have wished I had really kept in touch with them much much more.

Love not live, silly phone x

3nanny6, I totally understand. I think I thought I could live my mother better. I now realise that people can't change others, only themselves. Hope 2020 is a good one for you x

Yennifer I think the more I hear of peoples life stories the more I realize that there are genuinely some women that should just not have children as they have no idea how to offer a child the opportunity of a loving childhood.
I count myself as being fortunate that I had a child-hood where I was brought up in a family unit with mum, dad and siblings we also had extended family as mum had 8 altogether in her family so also many cousins to play with.
I later had my children however my other half was not always around so I parented alone with much support from grand-parents. The daughter I talk about had a happy child-hood and done very well in school and college. It became apparent to me that she was experiencing some anxiety issues this was not until she was about 22 and so being an adult I was completely in the dark as to her treatment and she told me she had mental health issues and was having treatment. She became pregnant and had two babies in quick succession and that was the start of her change of attitude to me and the put downs in anything I done for her or any methods I tried to explain to her about the children that would make her life easier she did not want to listen.
I would get called to help with the babies and then be criticised over any help given. Once one of the babies was very floppy when I got to her house one morning and I immediately called an ambulance and the child was hospitalised for three days as she was dehydrated and had an asthma attack. I have been there for everything with my GC even when I kept getting abuse from my daughter and it dragged me down until I needed counselling.
My counsellor raised my self esteem and self confidence again and told me to take a step back from my daughters problems as I was useless to anyone if I was ill myself, it was at that point I began to look after myself again as I had started to internalise all the criticism and believed I was the one with the mental health issues. I did not walk away from my daughter and GC but just protected my own mental health a little more. My daughter had another baby this one from a different father and he soon left and still I tried to assist her and be there although for some time now she has told me stay away and do not contact her and she made it clear I was unwelcome to visit her so I have very little option to keep going to her home as she could hold it against me and say I was harassing her which could start a bigger feud than the one that seems has already started.
You are certainly right about abusive relationships and why people stay in them but sometimes I think that they have the delusion they can change the abuser and that is not usually the case. I am feeling further away from my daughter than I have ever done although I know I do have a life outside of her and the G.C. and most of us do have the survival gene inside of us that can always keep us strong.

Take Care, and Happy New Year. xx

I have learnt to always make sure I know people for myself, not what others say and I wish my family had done that for me x

My family fully estranged me as an adult when I estranged my mother so I don't think they noticed anything too worrying. Counselling is where I understood why. I had been victim of a classic smear campaign all my life and just didn't know. My mother didn't invite me to family gatherings which I would see unfold on places like Facebook and when I asked her why I wasn't invited she would say she did and I must have forgotten. I had no idea at all that she might be lying to family too and saying I didn't want to come. If I was there by chance, she would whisper things to me constantly about my babies being embarrassing or badly behaved or their appearance or my appearance until i eventually blew up and left. It's hard to explain this properly because it was so sly even I couldn't see it until the counsellor explained just how not normal it was. My problem was that I thought if my own mother thought something of me, then everyone would. I didn't know what she was doing/saying to make that reality to others, I had inernalised it and genuinely believed I was the problem/difficult one. I think that is why people end up in abusive relationships for so long when others think "just leave" because they have been convinced it is their own fault and they are the problem x

Yennifer, once again sorry for any offence. I understand that your post was truthful in regard of your life when you were a child. I feel your pain as you were clearly abused so that has obviously left you with trauma that still exists.

I hope when you were old enough you were able to build a happier life and meet caring people where you could experience love kindness and understanding which is after all what all of us should have in life.
In fact you talk of your mother alienating you from other family so they did not notice the abuse that existed I would point out that maybe they did notice but were unsure what action to take. I see my daughter doing something similar
with my grand-children so perhaps estrangment/alienation is not so different as seeing an innocent child abused (not physically) is just another part of family relationships.
I have had counselling and also done a two year course in counselling and I admit I am still no where near understanding the complexities of family life.

ExD1938 - with children aged 5, 3 and a baby it sounds like your GD has a lot on her plate. I suspect it is more to do with being very busy and having a baby more than what you've bought them.

She may be struggling and it sounds like you have different expectations of hosting. I'd text or call and say you've noticed tension and ask what you can do to make the visits easier. While they have a baby I'd stick to any boundaries they set and not be offended by lack of hosting. Go in, take a seat, and enjoy seeing your GGC.

There isn't strict estrangement on my side of the family, but we have some family who we don't see often and clearly don't like my Mother. As a child in the situation I always felt wounded that the extended family didn't put their feelings about my Mother to one side for the sake of me and my siblings.

It's just not right is it Laughlovelive that there are GP's who desperately want to be able to see their GC and there are others who are unappreciative of having their GC in their lives and are cold and distant.

I'm sorry that you've had such a difficult time with your parents. I can see why you miss your GGP's so much, thank goodness they were there for you and you were able to get away and stay somewhere loving and safe, if only rarely.

I feel so sad for many of you who are estranged from your grandchildren. Although my children are much older, they desperately miss their GG who idolised them. She was always very tactile and generous with them too.
Unfortunately the GP’s are cold and distant. They never hug the children, or play with or even treat them to a small sized shared packed of chocolate buttons, a comic, or any small token of thought and care. The children always openly thanked her very enthusiastically.
Unfortunately she’s now gone and the children grieve for her still. One set of GP’s have now gone, but mine are still alive.
Sadly my relationship with my DM is extremely difficult. I hate being left alone in a room with her because although she can no longer be physically abusive, she is really nasty, verbally. Life for her as she has said, would be a lot simpler if I was no longer here. She’s gone to the extent of making sure that I “know how to do it properly”(commit suicide) because she thinks that with a chronic disease, I will in time become a burden on people around me. I've always been the least favourite child as well, she’s told me. Hence I stay away from her, but I do let her see the children.
The children have asked why has their GG gone, but then they had four, now two grandparents who don’t idolise them like GG did. My DP’s have always been very cold and have always let me know that I was a mistake. I was abused physically and mentally. I’ve been told that my family were dysfunctional. I was used as a bartering tool as a child. GG and GGF were allowed to have me stay for a rare week on condition that something was given, paid for, something was done, etc. It was the only ever time that I truly felt safe and could relax. I didn’t feel on edge all the time when I was there, ready to jump out of the way or anticipate something horrible.
Fortunately, there came a time when I could drive and naturally I drove to my GG and GGF. I have some very lovely memories of those times and I feel very blessed. As for my children, I tell them that it’s better to have had, than to never have had at all. It hurts all the more when someone like that dies. She’s definitely left a huge void in our lives.
I’ve wondered sometimes how lovely it would be to ‘adopt’ some ‘grandparents’ who would actually appreciate us and be kind to myself, particularly. When we had Christmas dinner it felt like there were too many empty chairs...and thought about how many people would appreciate a family like ours...

sodapop This is true for my SIL and makes good sense to me, maybe moving on is to the best. I can't say it impacted greatly on my life as I didn't know anything else and my parents didn't talk about it.

grannyactivist -- What great advice. I too believe that the better the relationship with the minor children's parents, the better the overall family relationships will be for all involved.