AEC thread. Feel free to chat or add helpful resources here.

ggg strange things happen in abusive households. My brother would tell you he had a great childhood... We were treated very differently and he doesn't see it, some of it was hidden from him and some, well he behaves the same way so he is fine with that behaviour.

The outcomes are all quite individual and dependant on so many factors. Like, I could have turned out just like my mum but I had a very good support system of friends and the other side of my family. My brother who we would call the golden child in this scenario (I was scapegoat) has turned out just like his parents. He could have been completely different though. It depends on so many things...

I sit and think sometimes, well at least I'm not doing all the behaviour I know my mum did that hurt me and experts have told me it was wrong so I can avoid that.... But what about all the other ways I could be messing up here?

Its hard work really and I don't know if I explained that well at all lol

Any attempt or positive step towards growing as a person is absolutely always good though... So there is that

Your post makes perfect sense ggg and it's good to see that you are able to articulate your personal experiences so well. As you say, "it feels good and healthy to do so".

You don't need others to validate what you've been through but it is of course lovely when they do.

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I sit and think sometimes, well at least I'm not doing all the behaviour I know my mum did that hurt me and experts have told me it was wrong so I can avoid that.... But what about all the other ways I could be messing up here?

Its hard work really and I don't know if I explained that well at all lol

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Personally I think you did SB. Yes, it is hard work.

I put so much effort into decision it can be exhausting.

Reminding myself i am not abusive.

Example

DD came out a few months ago and said she had a girlfriend. My reaction along the lines of 'well, as long as you are safe and happy etc'

Not very close neighbour's abusive reaction to her DD (this is sad) doing the same

'you will burn in hell and God will punish you'...

Yes, sadly this is true. Would not wish to be growing up in that household. Mother in question did not reflect or seek out information as far as the best thing to say is concerned.

Yes, I can understand people have biases but that situation can have a lot to contribute to future estrangements too. Slightly off topic I know, perhaps.

thanks smileless for post good it makes sense

I've never understood how a parent can turn away from their own child because of their sexual orientation. Maybe some feel it's a reflection on how they were parented.

There's still a lot of ignorance and bias out there which is bad enough without being on the receiving end from your own parents.

ggg

Personal growth is a key factor I think.

Anyone willing to grow and change I know has it in them to be a good person.

Listening to what others say rather than making it about yourself.

Acknowleding that people don't like your behaviour even if it hurts to do so and changing it even if just around that person.

Being able to admit you were wrong and apologise.

Keeping your mind open

People who can't do that can never be OK with their child going against their ideals...

Some take time to impliment personal growth if its a culture/religious/upbringing shock... I hope your neighbour loves her daughter enough to do it...

so do I. I know she is fundamentally a good person.
Young woman in question quite strong and feisty so I hope she can claim her space as it were.

A lot for this young lady to deal with though ggg having been told by her mother 'you will burn in hell and God will punish you'.

yes it is. but I know amonst peers in schools there is solidarity from others in the LGBT plus q contngent

That's good to know.

Just popping this here as its very helpful in general as well as difficult people and re reading about it was helpful to me today as things slipped a bit with less contact with other humans

www.beyondintractability.org/coreknowledge/active-listening

Starblaze -- What an interesting read. Boy there is so much in that my 'mom' could think about embracing.

The talking about school and 'English class' was just the story of my life growing up. My 'mom' came at me like I was always doing 'wrong'. Abusers don't engage in 'active listening' and even if I could get my point of view acknowledged and if if it could be demonstrated that I was NOT 'in the wrong' guess what happened next?

Maybe I would get a, "Well, I guess you are 'right'." insert snotty tone. Did this change behaviors and attitudes? Nope. Did that get an apology or any kind of pledge of improvement from her? Nope.

I swear, me being 'right' about anything was much like how she viewed a stopped clocked. It is/was bound to be correct 'once in a while' but it shouldn't get excited and think highly of itself just because of a "fluke".

Using the clock as the analogy, abusers think only their 'clock' is perfectly in time and even if you have your own 'working clock' (individual personality) and it too can 'tell time' -- IT doesn't tell the time 'correctly'.

The other thing abusers can't grasp is that if they are yelling out random times that are 'not correct' after a while, people will start to realize, "You are saying it's noon but it's pitch dark outside..." And then the abuser will begin the usual justifications, "You are seeing it 'wrong'. You need glasses..."

By my mid-teens I really stopped 'talking' to my 'mom' about my struggles and she would whine to me, "Why don't you want to 'talk' to me???" I finally got pissed one day and said, "I really don't need/want another lecture about my inadequacies that gives everyone else the right to bully me when I get 'in trouble' for even trying to stand up for myself."

Looking back (all that therapy/recovery), that is one of the things my Doc used to diagnose my 'mom' as a Narcissist. My description of what my 'mom' thought of as "help" is so unhealthy it rang alarm bells to a pro.

My Doctor asked me to list things that my 'mom' said to me that made me feel good about myself and/or were encouraging and supportive toward me. I sat in silence while trying to think of something and finally I said, "I don't suppose a surprised, 'Wow, you didn't screw that up.' or 'At least you are 'better' then insert name counts..." and of course the kid I was being compared to was a flunking out student who was busy entertaining law enforcement when I was a straight A student. And no, neither of those 'counted'.

HolyHannah I am taking it to heart more and more... It must be one of the things that gets easier with practice.

I hadn't looked at it from the perspective of my mum until I read what you said but wow, OK can of worms huh!

It kind of hurts me that I listen to yours and others stories and just nod along thinking "yep, that's abuse, that's definitely awful". Then it all builds up until I'm just overflowing and really upset and wondering how the hell these people get to call themselves mothers. The word is too good for them. They don't deserve it.

I have examples too of my mum not listening.

I remember being in class and a boy hitting me with a metal ruler, the side of it. I was bleeding and nothing was done. I was about 13. The teacher didn't deal with the boy and didn't stop me picking up my things and just walking out of the class and the school. I just went. I rang my mum from a phone box and tried to tell her what happened in between sobbing. She wouldn't listen and just screamed at me to get back into school and back to the situation that had scared me enough that I left it with blood running down the back of my head.

I would never do that to my child, to any child.

Pantglas2

Message deleted by Gransnet. We felt this post singled out another poster and although didn't go as far as a personal attack, was quite confrontational. We thought best to delete it.Here's a link to our <a target="_blank" rel="noopener" href="https://signal-corridor.live/info/netiquette%22%3ETalk Guidelines.</a>

I’m back to apologise for being ‘quite confrontational’ to Starblaze as that wasn’t my intention.

I didn't report you Pantsglas, but I appreciate the apology. I'm really not a bad person and I really don't set out to alienate anyone. I also do not make general or blanket statements.

I just wanted a space here that estranged adult children who have been abused could use to support each other and share helpful resources.

There really isn't anywhere else on the Internet to connect with estranged children of my age group that I can relate to as easily.

Talking about our parents and how sadly similar they are isn't an attack on anyone else.

Or to put it all a other way:

I'm only scared of the dog that bit me, I don't think all dogs are bad... However...

If someone has recently been bitten by a dog and they aren't ready to trust other dogs again, a thread like this would be a good place to help them move past it with a bit of listening, understanding and kindness... Not a place for loud barking.

Our relationships cannot be saved. Some here can with advice.

I don't know why I need analogies, I just like them.

Starblaze -- "It kind of hurts me that I listen to yours and others stories and just nod along thinking "yep, that's abuse, that's definitely awful". Then it all builds up until I'm just overflowing and really upset and wondering how the hell these people get to call themselves mothers. The word is too good for them. They don't deserve it." -- I cannot agree more.

It's much like some who minimize the intrusion that false reports to CPS and going to court for GP rights causes damage to minor children PERIOD. The platitudes of, "Well, if you are a 'good parent' they will see that and everything will be fine."

False reports waste the valuable time/resources of the CP agency. With false reports, the reputation of the falsely accused can be impacted, like people not trusting you with their children because -- you know -- CPS has been involved with your family. Or with a false accusation can come a false belief of that 'allegation' (CPS gets it 'wrong') and it can take months and even years to clear your name!

Children develop very quickly and months of stress can lead to years or a life-time of emotional issues. But that's only a minor 'thing' right?

Does my 'family' or husbands (or both -- we don't know exactly who the first 'outsider' was to report their "concerns" to Our local agency) care at all about Us or our children? Nope. Their excuse is, "Well, if they'd just let Us have contact with the kids we'd know they are safe and well and then we wouldn't have to keep calling CPS!"

I call that emotional manipulation and using 'the system' to try to bully Us. I think I have a right to be a tad miffed about THAT.

You really do and I know how over taxed the system is and I see real neglect that isn't given the time and the support that family needs Holyhannah. False reports impact that too.

We are not allowed to be better than them so I guess on some level they know they were rubbish parents to project that on to their children.

I'm glad having older children at the time of estrangement offered some protection but, that meant my children had an unhappy mum and witnessed abuse for longer.

No winning with abusive parents.

They can sneeze abusively.

Honestly though my mum had the loudest sneeze I have ever heard. Everyone had to know lol

No winning with any abusers whoever they may be.

Pantglas .

Starblaze -- I am the Queen of analogies. LOL

It was a very effective therapeutic tool for me in recovery. I think it has to do with changing your view/perspective of things.

Much like the story of the 'older lady' criticizing the 'younger neighbors' wash. There was nothing 'wrong' with the clean clothes on the line -- the neighbor's window was just dirty.

Abusers look at the world (You) through a 'dirty window' and treat you how they think you deserve based on that. You can wash the window from your side but if an abuser refuses to wash 'their side'? They still see You through the "dirty window". So your choices are to 'smash the glass' (abuse them back) or walk away and hope they decide to wash their window.

This is why I don't believe No Contact is abuse. Why, IF I could use my children as pawns to get what I want/'control' the GP's, would I not be in their lives doing just that? Or perhaps their perception is I just want the privacy to abuse my children in peace (alone and isolated) like they did to Me. Either way, the perception ('dirty window' perspective) is that WE are abusive and therefore THEY and Our children must be "victims".

Holyhannah exactly, if I were using my children as weapons I'd be finding ways to carry on doing so. I'd be answering her messages and dangling carrots and posting pictures where I know she would see them instead of just shutting down, tightening the security and slamming every door with every lock shut.

I'm not abusive. I don't continue to harass people who clearly don't want to speak to me.

I'm protecting my children.

She might like to pretend she is wonderful but I know the truth.

Well you may not believe that No Contact is a form of abuse but for many EP's that's precisely what it is. There are plenty of examples here on GN of parents who use their children to get what they want using them to manipulate and control their parents.

Perhaps it's better not to invalidate what others experience simply because you haven't experienced it yourself.

What happened to you sounds awful SBlaze.

Sorry to hear that.

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone posting here. Walking alongside this the last couple of days especially in stressful time before school starts has been very helpful for me.

Thank you ggg it is a bit horrible when situations pop up that you didn't think of until now but I accept the situation as a whole if you see what I mean.

Starblaze -- Understanding the situation as a 'whole' definitely eases the burden a little.

ggg -- It is a journey to disentangle yourself from a dysfunctional system. I am a long term survivor as is my husband and we still learn new things about interacting with each other.

There was an interesting discussion TOD about the statement, "We'll just have to agree to disagree." and how that can be a shut-down statement by abusers.

If I find myself saying something like 'that', I step back and make sure I am NOT doing the things I stand against.

You know there's something 'wrong' in your world and with that comes the chance at meaningful change. One step and day at a time.

Stay strong All.