Support for all who are living with estrangement

Hmmm... I remember times I accused dm of things - motives or whatever - she said weren't true. When I was young, I just thought she was in denial or didn't like her "ulterior motives" being "found out." In later years, I realized it might just be a case of "mismatched perceptions." And I still think that, but looking back, I now see that I was often making rigid assumptions, based on my own pov. Otoh, she didn't seem to be able to look at things from where I sat, to see that what she saw as "help" might look like 'interference" to me, etc. We had a great relationship in many ways, and I would never have gone nc. But if we had both tried to see what the other was feeling, there might have been more understanding and less conflict... Just a thought...

Also would like to point out that not all therapists advocate No Contact, I went to a German young woman a few years ago who really just listened and helped me let go my need for her to act like a mother, loving kind supportive, which helped for a few years keep contact with her without too much stress by not letting her manipulate me which lasted until her next crisis and I had to provide 24 care for a year. (Awful, I did all the work and spent my savings whilst my brother didn’t help at all and my mother kept telling me she loves but doesn’t like me )

I read this thread with great interest from two different angles, as a MIL who has issues with over stepping the relationship with my DILS, and as a woman who has an on again off again estranged relationship with my mother.

I read another poster mentioned the 3 generations cycle with interest. My great grandmother, grandmother and mother lived together, all married and were left by their husbands when babies were under a year old.

My now elderly mother raised my half brother and I very differently, I was raised pillar to post with her as a single mother, she then moved us into my now stepfathers house when I was four. He was a bully and my mother denied this saying I was a naughty child (totally refuted by mothers friends and extended family ) My brother I were treated totally differently, me bullied and ostracised and he coddled, moved out at 16. My middle aged younger brother and my mother sleep in the same room, my stepfather on the couch. Unhealthy dynamics abound. I now feel sorrier for my brother, my neglect was better than my mother’s cosseting of him.

I estrange myself from my mother for periods as her nasty behaviour towards me has wrecked havoc on my life to protect myself. But there is always a ‘crisis’ and I feel obligated to reach out again. My husband would be one of the ones advocating ‘no contact’ which he thinks would be the best solution to the problem.

I am curious, and be gentle with me here as this situation has caused me life long grief and anxiety. Am I in the wrong for these periods of estrangement?

I feel like my upbringing has lead to some of the issues that I have with my DILS as unhealthy behaviour was normalised by my upbringing.

I would like to end the generational cycle of unhealthy relationships with me.

ask questions, I’ve never spoken about this with anyone other than close friends and family so may sound garbled or have left information out to give context x Dilly

The only letter, if any, I may want to receive from our ES, imaginary or otherwise would be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I did ask you this a while back cherries, have you been told by your d.i..l. and/or son that your d.i.l. wants no contact with you?

When our DS who lives ins Aus. was married, our then d.i.l. never had an involvement in our skype of face time conversations, not because she was estranging herself but because she thought it better to 'leave us to it'. Could that be the case with your d.i.l.?

I was a little confused by your letter at first b/c I can't imagine any of these eac saying that their accusations were 'ill-considered" or "metaphorical." (In fact, I can barely imagine their writing a letter, they're more likely to send an email, if anything, lol!) And when one of my egp friends told her ds (now es) that his charges were false, he simply responded with a new accusation, that she was "in denial." I imagine that many of these eac or ecil would react the same way.

But now I see your letter was an example of something an ep/egp might do for themselves. To express what they really feel is going on with their eac. To voice what they wish their eac would say to them. Maybe to write down what kind of thing their eac would need to say for them (the eps) to understand, forgive, trust, and reconcile. Interesting idea!

Yogagirl

I'm glad that you find the imaginary excerpt good to read. No, I've not copied the wording from any source material but have been inspired by similar imaginary letters that I've read in the past in books and magazine articles e.g. written by people with "unfinished business" with a deceased parent with whom the issues at the root of the pain could not be discussed when that parent was alive. In that case, the letter writer (an AC) would think about what (s)he dearly wished her/his parent had said in reply after a distressing matter that had deeply affected the AC was raised with the parent in an imaginary fashion. What I am suggesting here is a role reversal, of course, because here we are imagining what we might want/need to read from our AC or adult s-i-l or d-i-l or partner of our AC.

What could be useful about the exercise is that it can of course be adapted to fit your heart's desire. e.g. "I'm not going to dodge the bullet any longer, Mum, but be honest with you. I repeatedly lied to you and about you and hid shamelessly behind excuses that you'd be entitled to call pathetic. I'm pretty ashamed of myself now, though, as you and Dad brought me up to know right from wrong. You must have been dreadfully hurt by my short-sighted and selfish behaviour and I know that I need to listen carefully and thoughtfully to you telling me about how it affected you - the emotional wounds and other problems that were created." etc.

I am a grandmother dealing with partial estrangement myself - by a d-i-l.

Yoga, I totally understand why you may have been favoring gd over gs without realizing it. After all, you were a big part of gd's life, almost like another p, as you point out. And I imagine you felt protective of her going into a new situation and, maybe, had some concern that sil might do the opposite and favor gs over gd. Of course, it was a mistake to show favoritism, even though unintentional. But I think ed and sil also made a mistake if they didn't give you a chance to apologize and make amends. So sad!

You've described just how I feel Ginny42
I too would take any tiny bit of contact yogagirl
Hugs to all today. x

I agree Bradfordlass, when the reason(s) for going NC have no basis in truth, when they are lies, no amount of letter writing from the EP is going to make a difference.

TBH cherries if we were to receive a letter from our ES by way of an explanation that referred too "(a) just opinions and not hard facts (b) based on flimsy grounds and (c) constructed around tiny kernels of truth which sit along side other kernels of truth of a very different sort (c being quite likely something our ES could come out with), I'd be furious.

The simple, more straight forward and honest 'explanation would be 'I lied'. As you have posted Bradfordlass they are excuses.

For me, our ES attempting to sugar coat and/or dilute not only the lies that have been told but his decision to go NC and take away or only GC, together with the physical, emotional and mental anguish that he has put us through, would be another example of his abusive behaviour.

What our ES would need to come to terms with would be the pain and suffering that we, his parents and other family members, have had to endure for years.

There may well be genuine concerns for him to talk to us about however, that should have been done 7 years ago. But whatever they may be, they are not the reason for NC, if they were he'd have said so in the beginning but all he came up with were lies.

Ginny I wish I had your situation, where I could see my D&GC but not s.i.l, not ideal I know but better than being completely cut off, so keep that in mind & may you continue to see you're loved ones x

If my EstD were to write me a letter it would say my husband is jealous of you and Laila [my GD] to the point you had to be got rid of and that would be that.

Cherrie are you quoting or copy & pasting from a book or online material? it reads that way, I know you are not estranged yourself, even so it is good to read.

I wouldn't need an explanation. If he (SiL) just stopped treating me this way I would just accept that it was over and done with. I did that once before and my DD said she'd never been so happy, but then the illogical barrier came down again. I can truly say I don't understand why he's doing this. I don't think I'll ever know. I think he's jealous, but there is mental illness and the problem flared when he didn't take his meds because he wanted to drive. Am I wrong to think that if he truly loved my DD and DGS, he would put up with me for their sakes? Is that illogical? He moves out when I go there. How much longer can that be acceptable?

They're coming to the UK for a week's holiday in the summer and two birthday celebrations he won't be at. I think it's his loss. He's missing so much. His very elderly mother is now dying and I wonder if there will be a change of heart.

Sad for all being alienated in this way, but I for one will rise above it. Hugs for those feeling sad. x

Yes, it's an excellent template, Cherries -

I'm very much enjoying this exchange despite the heartache because thus far everyone has been courteous and open to differing views -

I don't know that I would find it difficult to write a letter in response to false accusations against me, however I'm not certain I would be confident sending it -

My concern would be that no matter how carefully the letter was worded it could open up old wounds -- wounds that obviously exist but have no knowledge of how they were inflicted -

My desire to know what produced the necessity to falsely accuse me probably wouldn't be enough to ask my child to walk across an emotional minefield to provide me with answers -

A good letter - are you really my son in disguise?

BradfordLass72

So, the letter might include something like this:

"Mum, I know that I have justified to myself in the past going NC with you because I have thought this, that and this over-the-top/outrageous thing about you and made various other ill-considered assumptions along the way. This was wrong of me because the best that could ever be said about these ideas of mine was that they were (a) just ideas or opinions, not hard facts
(b) based on flimsy grounds and (c) constructed around tiny kernels of truth which sit alongside other kernels of truth of a very different sort. I know this now and don't think that logic or reason has ever had much to do with it really, to be honest.

Metaphorical mother-bashing and going NC with you became convenient for me in recent years because, as I have come to realise, it saved me a lot of effort and bother to project or channel a lot of things onto you as a scapegoat. The bonus for me was that these courses of action kept the peace with my partner. Rather than admit this to other people and fully to myself, rather than discuss it with my partner, I fell into the habit of repeating and spreading lies and distortions about you. It served a purpose. I'm not proud of myself and am trying to "grow" now and be a better person, not only for my own sake but also for Daisy/David's. I miss seeing you and being with you and appreciate that you will probably find it very hard to let me back into your life because of how badly I have hurt your feelings and trust. I am truly sorry, Mum, but will understand if you you are cautious and sceptical because of how I have behaved."

Like Ginny & Nanny, I had an open heart and an open house. Everyone was welcomed and fed, day or night with no reservations and I gave comfort or help as much as I could.

Now, if my ES had given this as a fault, I may have been surprised but could understand it. But he didn't.
Instead, he came up with things I had not done, totally imaginary things.

I think Cherries idea of writing a letter might be useful to parents who have an inkling why they've been 'divorced' by their ACs.

But not for those whose children have come up with a battery of lies simply because their parents have done nothing wrong - but the AC need an excuse to distance themselves.

hugshelp

I agree with you that dogmatic beliefs emanating from the worlds of therapy and counselling can be misguided - especially when there is a lack of good quality research and corroborating evidence to support them - and that trying family therapy, if it is possible for adults of different generations to come together, attend regularly and engage sufficiently, would also be preferable to going NC. To be willing to take part in family therapy would be to express willingness to keep the door at least slightly ajar in order to maintain a connection and to keep listening attentively, reflecting, considering various viewpoints and ideas and participating in dialogue with other members of one's immediate family, even though this would probably be challenging and uncomfortable at times. It would be an expression of hope regarding having a happier future together as a family by going through this process together and considering if any changes and adaptations might need to be made along the way for the sake of the greater good. A family therapist might also provide pleasant feedback sbout what (s)he sees as the family's strengths.

ginny42 you couldn't have put it better if you tried
thats exactly how it feels
you so sound like me
its nice to be somewhere where mums understand
its nice to know im not alone.

Reading all of the above responses I realise that I have been naïve by comparison to many of you. My life has been lived on a very simplistic level of loving others with infinite love. My heart was always wide open for those I love and I have encompassed friends and family within my love and care. That gave me a sense of who I am, being a loving person was what my life was about at home and in my job. That's what I did - I loved. When my DD met and married my SiL he too was accepted, loved and respected, yet he is in the process of trying to destroy my family. We live in different countries so there is a wide physical distance between us which never mattered before, but pushes us wider apart now.

I have loved too much and that is why rejection hurts so badly on so many levels. I am too vulnerable. Sorry I don't have the words of wisdom, analytical skills or the professional knowledge of psychology. I just know that rejection by someone you have loved and cared for is the worst emotional pain we will ever bear.

When this alienation began I felt bereft. I wept and wept and became withdrawn. I felt emotionally numb. My heart was breaking. Reaching out to others who understand is in itself a therapy which helps assuage some of the grief. I am grateful for the help from others here.

I feel for all who are struggling to come to terms with knowing you have so much love to give, but find it rejected.

Lots of interesting things to ponder Cherries.
I don't see how anyone can say it takes a set number of generations to heal or whatever. That's like saying grief lasts 2 years. Yes it might be some kind of average, but it takes as long as it takes. I would think good family therapy, where everyone works together with a therapist heping them to heal would be the ideal. Or at least worth trying before NC.

It might help to imagine that your AC had undergone a period of good therapy, as partly outlined previously, before composing the letter.

Gransnetters who are dealing with estrangement by an AC, if your AC were to write a long, detailed and introspective letter to you which attempted to explain the (possibly multifactorial) path leading up to her/his decision to cut you off, described the aftermath and expressed the hope of making amends and reconnecting with you, what would (s)he write in this letter? That is, if you were actually to be the author but to write as if your estranging AC were the author, what would you say to yourself?

Could this be worth doing as a private exercise? Even if you think just now that there is no likelihood of your AC ever doing such a thing in reality or of you ever again trusting what (s)he writes (if direct communication between you ever resumes) or even if you have other reservations, could this be of any conceivable help to you as an imaginary, private exercise?

Good therapy - carried out within a good therapeutic relationship - can promote the facing up to and addressing of difficult experiences and consequent healing, make it easier to separate the past from the present, help a person to feel less threatened, defensive and insecure, encourage a more flexible thinking style, encourage a compassionate attitude towards self and others, provide guidance about relationship and emotional regulation skills and the cultivation of positive attitudes, emotions and behaviours.

Namsnanny I too was accused of favouring my GD over my GS, I was really shocked to hear this and in fact was told I was viseful for doing this. I took a step back and evaluated what had been said and I had to hold my hands up and realise for the first time that it was true. I certainly had no idea beforehand that I was, I loved my GS with all of my heart, I really did. I was never given a chance to answer this accusation.

My GD was the first born GC, she and her mother lived with me. I was actually the second P as my GD father didn't want to know. I looked after my then DD through her pregnancy, taking her to all her hospital app, scans, anti-natal. I was her birth partner & was the second person in the world to hold her in my arms, I loved her from that second and I'll love her to the day I die and beyond. I chose her name and thereafter she was named after me. All the pomp & ceremony was at my house, all my neighbours coming in as well as all the family, it was wonderful, it was special and yes my GD was very special to me.

Before my other DD was cut out too, she asked my now EstD why she had cut me out, there was a pause...she then went and got the toilet rolls I had got on her request a week or so before when I'd got her some shopping and showed them to her sister, her sister said you don't mean to tell me you are cutting mum out of your life because she bought you the wrong toilet rolls!

I also had scenarios plonked onto my lap, that others had done & said.

My GD's name was changed to that of her stepdad's GM!