Support for all who are living with estrangement

Some of these are things I've witnessed. Others are things I have been told about by someone who was there and witnessed them.

Your own husband, by his own admission, does not know whether he said that or not.

If you were in a court of law, a judge would be telling you that you have no way of knowing whether or not your husband said such a thing and would completely discard any testimony of yours that he would "never say such a thing".

Yes agnurse I am in a position to know whether that particular 'memory' of our DS's was true or false.

My husband "is a very nice man", a wonderful husband and father and I do know "Who the [Bleep]" I married. Tell me, the things that you've posted about your f.i.l. , are they all incidents you've witnessed or are some things that you've been told?

You never fail to disappoint, you never fail to take the side of an AC against their parents.

I thought our ES "was a very nice person, only to discover that (he) was anything but" and do you know why? Because no one blessed with a father like Mr. S. should ever have turned out the way he has.

Here's the thing, Smileless: you weren't there. You don't know what was said. Therefore you are not in a position to know if the memory was true or not.

While I'm sure your husband is a very nice man, it's quite possible that things were said in the heat of anger that shouldn't have been said.

There's a TV show entitled "Who the [Bleep] Did I Marry?" Many people have married someone they thought was a very nice person, only to discover that this person was anything but. My point being that even if you believe you know a person very well, you cannot state that something did not happen if you were not there to witness it.

I'm glad things have worked themselves out Bopeep, it just shows how important communication is and why, when estranging AC refuse to talk, there's simply nothing their parents can do.

Hope you're feeling much better Rhinestone. That's an interesting post about memories Rhinestone. Over the years of being estranged I've spoken to mums who are convinced that their estranging AC have seen a therapist and false memories have been implanted.

It's just as, if not more likely that any false memories have been put there by them.

The second time we visited DS in Aus, the night before we were flying home (yes, DS picks his moments) I'd left him and his dad talking and when I came back Mr. S. was in tears. DS told him he 'remembered' when he'd been working for us during a holiday from Uni. he damaged our van; he did. He said Mr. S. was annoyed; he was, and that he'd told him it would have been better if he'd never been born; he didn't. I wasn't there but I know he'd never say such a thing.

Mr. S. was terribly upset, saying he didn't think he had; he couldn't remember but what if he had!!! I told them both that he'd never say such a thing.

DS said he didn't understand why he 'remembered' the incident if it had never happened. I told him I had no idea but it seemed that he and his brother were able to 'remember' things that never happened and his brother in particular, was able to conveniently 'forget' things that had.

DS had a false memory; whether it was placed there by him or his brother, we'll never know but I know what I think.

Hi Rhinestone! Sorry you weren't feeling well, but glad you're better now.

Sorry that MDay was a "nightmare," too.

But if ES is truly estranged from you, I doubt he's going to answer your invite. Also, sorry to say, I doubt he'll come to dinner if you're going to be there. If he wants to acknowledge his GM's birthday, I imagine he'll do it some other way ( a card, a phone call). If his relationship with DH is pleasant, I suppose DH could contact him and ask if he's coming. But I think it's best to just leave it alone.

Meanwhile, Happy Birthday to your mother! 90! Wow!

Yesterday was our Mothers Day. Of course I had to make the plans and my daughter and her two children came along with my almost 90 year old mom. ( that was a nightmare but I won’t go into that) My ES never texted me as he did on my birthday. I texted his dad a few days ago to find out what is going on as my ES lives with him and hasn’t worked in a year. He was mean of course and told me it “ wasn’t the time for this.” I invited my ES to come to dinner for his grandmothers 90 th ( he spoke to her last week) I have gotten no response. Do I text him again? Let my husband contact him and ask if he’s coming? Or leave it alone.

Hi all- Haven’t been in for awhile due to physical problems but seem to be better physically that is. I think that the more you believe what the truth is despite it not being the truth... you more it becomes real . As an example my ESS told me that my DH went camping with a friend who took his son along and my ESS stayed home. I told him to talk to his dad about this. My DH did talk to him and told him he always went with his friend without children. But in his mind all these years his father went without him.

Interesting, hugshelp! In fact DB definitely experienced "audience -tuning effect." For years, he out-and-out lied about some of the things he found embarrassing. For example, if it came up, he told people my mum was 4 years older than she was just to make our parents' ages closer together. After a while, he came to believe she was the age he'd been saying, LOL! It was only when we had an argument about it when having her gravestone made up, and I had to show him her birth certificate, that I realized what had happened - he had come to believe his own falsehoods!

Actual different memories starlady.
But many studies have shown that our perspectives can actually change our memories.
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/am-i-right/201307/your-memory-isnt-what-you-think-it-is
And each time we tell ourselves or others a story of our memories, coloured by our current emotions of them, we can change the actual memory
theconversation.com/are-memories-reliable-expert-explains-how-they-change-more-than-we-realise-106461

Wow, Rose!

Yes, about a 10 gap for my mum and dad - Also, 9 years between me and my brother, 15 between me and my older sis, and 3 between me and my younger sis - It was like 2 families, and each one of us very different, with different memories and perceptions - The first batch were children in the 40s/50s and the second the 60s -

Different memories or different perspectives?

At some point, I began to realize that one of my DBs and I had very different perspectives of certain things regarding out parents. Generally speaking, our parents did some things a little differently than other people. Nothing big, just things like there was a wider age gap between them (8 years) than between most of the other couples we knew (2-4 years - and no, IDKY we even knew other couples' ages, LOL!). I was proud that our parents had the "courage to be a little bit different," DB thought it was "so embarrassing!" So - same memories, different perspectives.

My AC seem to have different memories of the same specific incidents, never mind their childhoods Smileless2012 - I guess perspective is all.
Thinking of you all today. xx

Perhaps it would be helpful to compile lists:

Sound reasons for going NC

Silly reasons for going NC

When my mum refused to make any effort to communicate her reasoning as to why she chose to handle matters as she did I chose NC - I was more than willing to sit down and hash it out, regardless of how much time it took - After going NC she didn't call me either - 2 years later I reached out to her -- after repeatedly being encouraged by my sibling to do so -

When I called mum she didn't care to rehash anything, didn't assume accountability for any of it- And so it was - We enjoyed each others company despite the fact that she never got down off her high horse to offer an apology or explanation-

Once the children were older, she backed off, acted busy with other things when I called - At the time it felt surreal, as if I didn't exist - She got what she wanted -

I love the woman to pieces - It was her prerogative to treat me as she did, and mine to continue to reach out to her despite her actions and lack of -

She will always be my mother, I will always love her -

I'm glad that ended well for you, Bopeep. I understand your reluctance to speak, at first. It's tricky for a mil/gp to "make waves" and could end up hurting them, in the end, so I get your thinking this over. And I believe that's wise anyway. Since your relationship with this ds and dil seems to be reasonably good, I don't think there was any harm in letting her know you were uncomfortable with her remark. You didn't criticize her, and she knows she's not perfect, surely.

In the future, it might be a good idea, if this happens again, to gently say something like, "I'm not a good choice of person to be saying this to." Idk. You know her better than I.

Agnurse, I get your points, but it seems to me, Bopeep was more hurt for herself than her ds. I think she has the right to speak up for herself. And yes, parents don't always see everything about their ac, but there was no need for dil to tell her., imo. The one she should be talking to is ds/dh.

Unfortunately, Nansmammy, I think there already is an imbalance in the mil/dil relationship, especially if there are gc involved. That's why I get Bopeep's being cautious and giving some thought to her wording.

I have thought about it all day, and when she came to pick my grandchild up I asked her why she felt the need to say what she said this morning, she apologised and said she didn’t realise how it would sound to me as his mum. So all sorted.
I just don’t want history repeating itself with another child going NC. Thanks for the replies.

Namsnanny Thanks!

Madgran…..good advice

Bopeep My response would be something along the lines of "Oh dear! I suggest you talk to him not me about it …
nothing I can do, he's a grown up now!" with a smile and maybe an acknowledgement of her irritation or whatever "That must be trying for you...I suggest you …"

Hi Namsnanny no, I haven't read any of his books. It is difficult to understand how children raised the same can have totally different 'memories' of their childhood.

In the case of many estranging AC, and I include our E in this, it seem all too convenient. No justifiable reason for cutting out their parents, so they make things up.

Yogagirl you are more than welcome. It does my heart good to see you posting again; I missed you.

Ag....parents are blood and flesh like their offspring.
The wrong doing in this situation is with the girlfriend.
Should the parent retort or not is not set in stone.
The parent has every right to choose as does the ac.
The fact that they don’t agree over something shouldn’t mean one party has to continually give way.
Each situation is different.
If one party panders to the others bad behaviour there is an imbalance in the relationship.
That leads to the (in this case) the girlfriend hardening her perspective of being in the right, whilst at the same time being treated like a child who can’t be reigned in!
Then the parents position becomes stratified.
The two become more opposed
With no hope of real communication.

Irishrose... thank you for your post. I found it comforting to read your reflections.?

Smile less..have you ever read any books by Oliver James? I’ve struggled to understand how members of the same family view their childhood so differently.

You don't respond.

A parent's instinct is to protect a child. That's normal. That's okay. But it also means that a parent is not able to be completely objective about issues with their children.

How does everyone deal with your other Sil or dil if you have them?
Just asking because my youngest sons girlfriend made a remark about my son this morning when she was dropping my grandson off and its not the first time.
I am upset because i feel she is criticising the way i brought him up.
I have kept my mouth shut as don't want to cause trouble between them, but i feel very hurt.

Thank you Smileless