“We start school too early in the UK!”

And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

Of course parents teach. They are the primary educators. Education is so much more than reading,writing and arithmetic!

teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

So how can we stop our children learning?
Just wondering...

winterwhite

Daddima I'm one who used the term formal education and what I meant was mandatory schooling, not optional, if that's an acceptable term.

Nothing to do with sitting at desks in rows. Those days had long gone when my own children started school.

Hi, winterwhite, it’s not just you, it’s a term I see used often regarding children’s education, and working in Early Years I encountered many parents who dismissed what was happening as ‘just playing’!

And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

Interesting from * AuntieE* there. So, what were parents and grandparents doing when they were reading to children, talking and listening to children, letting them help with kitchen tasks like weighing, measuring, making things with leftover pastry, playing with liquids and various containers, drawing and painting, sorting shapes, going through granny’s button box or daddy’s coin collection, and that’s just off the top of my head!
I also never met a teacher who objected to a child being able to read when they started school. If you have a child who wants to read, I’d love to know how you would go about trying to stop them.

Not only do primary children start school too young, teenagers start school too early. At that age biology prioritizes their sleep, so waking them up at six is equivalent to waking an adult at 4 in the morning and expecting them to go to work.

Well put Daddima
When I’ve read on GN, how many posters including me, could read before they started school does that make their parents or grandparents bad people?

The only problem with preschool readers was that some parents had to accept that it didn’t automatically make them good spellers.
One issue with preschool writing in the 1980s was that children came in only writing in capitals, some only knowing letter names.
Nothing wrong with singing ABC, DEFG and knowing capitals benefited them later on, but I still remember one child who refused to try lower case formation, until I made it part of a tracing challenge. He was keen to be the best tracer and letter formation stopped being a problem.

Maybe those in charge of education should realise that one size does not fit all when it comes to learning.

The curriculum stifles creativity, handcuffs teachers, and for the clever children bores them silly.

Children learn trough role play, building bricks, painting, story time all of which is prevalent in pre-schools/nurseries, Reception and Yr 1 classes.

It is Yr 2 when they are expected to knuckle down and the playing gives way to a more formal approach to learning.

I kept my firstborn back a year from school as she was only just four and a very shy anxious child. We had recently moved to Wales and were halfway up a mountain. I also had a two year old and a newborn baby and no transport.
The extra year at home was great, I taught her to read and write and do sums and a year later she was better able to cope with school.
Her sisters started school at just four but I always thought four is too young.

mumofmadboys

And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.

Of course parents teach. They are the primary educators. Education is so much more than reading,writing and arithmetic!

Parents, grandparents, spending time and patience with pre schoolers is invaluable. I agree each child is individual. I have x2- 5year old GC only 10 days apart in age both completely different educationally.
Keeping either off them for another year, not good for either of these 2. My other GD who is 9 had a lot of her early years education put on hold due to Covid. She missed out on pre school and most of the her Reception year, as the school kept shutting.

So if this should be curtailed, and only Teachers Teach, perhaps the BBC should stop putting on CBBC, programs like "Number blocks" and "Alphablocks" which have been hailed as excellent Educational programs, and have advanced children numbers and recognising letters.
My 5years old Grandson has this playing in the classroom at the end of the school day, while they all wait for pick up, Teachers love it.

Is the thought by all those "experts" that due to the education in the UK being so bad children need to start at 3 years of age just to reach a reasonable standard. How on earth did all the generations who started at 5+ ever manage to get to university, learn a skilled trade, manage companies just work to survive. I fear it will be yet another case of someone else's responsibility to educate tge young on how to use cutlery, clean teeth, dress, don't mention toileting.
The UK always seems to hold Scandinavia up as having the best standards of everything, especially for children but UK is choosing to ignore that.

You cannot make sweeping claims about any group of children at any age.

DD taught herself to read around her 3rd birthday and when her older brother went to school she insisted I had to do 'proper' school' with her if she was at home when her brother was at school. I tried to palm her off with colouring, dot to dot books and similar things, but she wasn't having any of it. She wanted reading, writing and arithematic.

I have known other children not ready to read and learn in a structured way until 7.

As I said, you you simply cannot make rules about when children are ready to larn. I bet in many of those countries where formal learning does not start until,6 or 7. a significant number of children of that age are already reading fluenetly.

We are a low tax country.
Scandinavia pays for its services willingly it seems to me.

Our Swedish relatives tell us this is so.

I could also read quite well at three MOnica, my older sister taught me how she had been taught at school and I loved it. I was no childhood genius though, as I was and still am, hopeless at anything numerical. I still love reading though.

Mollygo

The constant cry, from those endorsing starting at 7 e.g. Finnish education or the Italian Reggio Emilia approach.

So I read today about Babyzone in the UK plans to teach maths to preschoolers, using the same sort of activities that parents (usually mums) and grandparents used to do.
e.g.
Everyday Maths is a 40‑week pathway that makes maths visible in everyday routines. Activities follow a clear content spine across early maths domains, including number, shape and space, measurement, data and patterns. Sessions like Super Shape Explorers and the Maths Corner turn play into learning, then travel home via cue cards, online resources, WhatsApp nudges and Baby Buddy pathways.
Though already sending homework (which many parents already complain about) as cue cards, online resources, WhatsApp nudges and Baby Buddy pathways^ seems a bit strange.

.

Most children in European countries and U.S States start full time education at the age of six.

The school day starts at 7:30am in the U.S. and ends at (c) 2:30pm. European classes start at 8:00am and finish at 1:00pm-3:30pm for Juniors and 3:00pm to 5 30pm for Seniors.

If the UK school day gets any shorter it might as well just give up (unless they're at a private schools when the days are twice as long plus Saturdays)
.

Bazza

I could also read quite well at three MOnica, my older sister taught me how she had been taught at school and I loved it. I was no childhood genius though, as I was and still am, hopeless at anything numerical. I still love reading though.

I aam not talking about genius. I am talking about children being learning and reading ready at widely different areas.

Children in countries with formal school starting at 6 or 7, will have been attending nursery and kindergarten and many will be reading or on the point of reading by the time they start formal school.

You cannot compare the success or not of two entirely different school systems systems by simply noting what age it starts. The Finnish system is so different to ours in so many ways, schools are smaller and more local for one, especially at secondary level.

GrannyGravy13

We used Montessori for one of our children, have nothing but praise for that system.

For another it was pre-prep, just what they needed.

Both thrived in their environments.

Nursery and Reception classes are learning through play, or at least the ones I have experience of are 🤷‍♀️

Our eldest child attended Montessori, wonderful ethos and process.

I think those endorsing and explaining many children learn to read, count etc at young ages, need to take into account that the majority of this comes from home, in (normally) relaxed surroundings, geared around whether that young child wants to learn.

Our children started to read at home as all of them, without exception, were read to from the day they were born.

Counting and number recognition came from games we played with them.

Learning is fine, formal education with testing (which is used in infant schools onwards, not to test children’s understanding, but more as a stick with which to beat teachers), is something entirely different.

Even when our nursery and childcare settings are inspected by Ofsted, where in my opinion, the onus should be on safety, healthy eating and safeguarding, academic learning is looked at.

It’s all madness and is one of the reasons teachers leave in their droves!

M0nica

You cannot make sweeping claims about any group of children at any age.

DD taught herself to read around her 3rd birthday and when her older brother went to school she insisted I had to do 'proper' school' with her if she was at home when her brother was at school. I tried to palm her off with colouring, dot to dot books and similar things, but she wasn't having any of it. She wanted reading, writing and arithematic.

I have known other children not ready to read and learn in a structured way until 7.

As I said, you you simply cannot make rules about when children are ready to larn. I bet in many of those countries where formal learning does not start until,6 or 7. a significant number of children of that age are already reading fluenetly.

Equally teachers should not be judged by how easily their pupils learn and absorb information.

Various studies clearly show that it doesn’t actually matter when you actually master ready and numbers, most “normal average” children catch up by the time they are ready for Secondary school.

It’s only my opinion, but I think too much formal learning and not enough informal learning takes place in our nursery and infants school.

Cossy

I think those endorsing and explaining many children learn to read, count etc at young ages, need to take into account that the majority of this comes from home, in (normally) relaxed surroundings, geared around whether that young child wants to learn.

Our children started to read at home as all of them, without exception, were read to from the day they were born.

Counting and number recognition came from games we played with them.

Learning is fine, formal education with testing (which is used in infant schools onwards, not to test children’s understanding, but more as a stick with which to beat teachers), is something entirely different.

Even when our nursery and childcare settings are inspected by Ofsted, where in my opinion, the onus should be on safety, healthy eating and safeguarding, academic learning is looked at.

It’s all madness and is one of the reasons teachers leave in their droves!

Another reason teachers leave in droves is the dreaded p word!

Daddima

*And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.*

Interesting from * AuntieE* there. So, what were parents and grandparents doing when they were reading to children, talking and listening to children, letting them help with kitchen tasks like weighing, measuring, making things with leftover pastry, playing with liquids and various containers, drawing and painting, sorting shapes, going through granny’s button box or daddy’s coin collection, and that’s just off the top of my head!
I also never met a teacher who objected to a child being able to read when they started school. If you have a child who wants to read, I’d love to know how you would go about trying to stop them.

Brilliant post and response to a totally daft (imo) comment.

Cronesrule

I agree they start school too early. Here’s a radical money saving idea, we cut school provision for under 5/6s and use the money on “constructive” childcare placements. I don’t think it matters if a child cannot read at age 6 as long as there is good quality education after that. Of course there will always be parents who think it is a race to have their child reading earlier than other children but in the end, by the time they are adults, this is not a measure of happiness or success in life!

👏👏👏👏👏

Macaydia

I dont believe in governments raising a child and I dont think women should have children if they are not going to take responsibility for the child's upbringing.

How very judgemental.

I worked throughout all of my children and I can assure you I 1) had no choice financially and 2) both my hands-on husband and I took full responsibility for raising my children.

For 8 years, whilst they were little, (for three out of the four children) I worked in a 24 hour call centre so DH and I shared childcare. He went into work and started at 7:00am, I started work at 4:00pm, we shared all childcare and some of the housework. We discussed and agreed all aspects of childcare, their education, when and what they were allowed to do.

Our eldest daughter had 1 year off then returned to worked four days a week, when he was 1. Dad also worked 4 days a week (both did condensed/compressed hours, full time but across four days). DGS attended a very lovely private nursery until he started his equally nice country state primary school.

It doesn’t do children any harm whatsoever to be on decent childcare.

It doesn’t mean in any way whatsoever us working Mums are not good, caring, responsible parents.

Macaydia

To Mamie who asked me, "Do you think you have the right to judge other people's life choices?"
No, Mamie. I am not a judge and yes, I do state my opinion on matters, even if it's unpopular.

It’s not just about it being “unpopular” it’s totally impractical.

Some of us don’t have husbands in high paid jobs so our jobs count towards household income.

Our 5 children, all work, they seem just as stable as the few friends/peers who had “stay at home” mums.

It’s a really ridiculous and outdated view that only a loving mother can bring up a successful stable and happy child.

Our children in their twenties friends almost all of whom had working Mums, fewer for our two older ones, in their early forties, but probably about 60% of both parents worked.

When I attended school (I’m 67) many mothers worked.

Btw, when we required childcare, it was all privately sourced and paid for by us!

No state involvement whatsoever.

What about schools? Most of them are state funded?

I would cry if i had to leave my baby with someone else. I just didnt feel right about it, ever.