“We start school too early in the UK!”

Macaydia

Mamie, you said that your grandmother, your mother, you and your daughter worked full time. So, I am wondering, who was the mother or caregiver of your mother, yourself and your daughter during the full-time parental absence?

(Praise to all of you for a good work ethic, sincerely.)

My grandmother worked because my grandfather was disabled in the first world war. My mother worked full time because my father's health was ruined in Burma in the second world war. My mother was surrounded by aunts in her childhood, my grandmother looked after my sister and me. Our children had childminders and then nursery school. We both worked full time (although teaching gave me the holidays) and always shared parenting. My granddaughters were full time in nursery from a few months old and you could not wish for two more well adjusted, hardworking girls.
It is not what you do, it is how well you do it.

GrannyGravy13

Cossy yes which is why I used predominately not entirely in my post.

👍

Cossy yes which is why I used predominately not entirely in my post.

GrannyGravy13

Maybe those in charge of education should realise that one size does not fit all when it comes to learning.

The curriculum stifles creativity, handcuffs teachers, and for the clever children bores them silly.

Children learn trough role play, building bricks, painting, story time all of which is prevalent in pre-schools/nurseries, Reception and Yr 1 classes.

It is Yr 2 when they are expected to knuckle down and the playing gives way to a more formal approach to learning.

That’s not strictly true. My daughter is a year 1 teacher. Phonics are used and there are expected levels to reach and teachers are judged accordingly.

I think maybe the title of this thread would be better titled, “UK start formal learning and testing too early” perhaps?

Macaydia

Cossy, I will accept that i have a ridiculous and outdated view. Still keeping it ! 😊

Fair enough, sorry it trigger a nerve in me as some of us simply don’t have the luxury of choice

Total hours on site per year for primary school children by country:

​United States: ~1,260 hours (7 hours a day × 180 days)
​Australia: ~1,235 hours (6.5 hours a day × 190 days)
​United Kingdom: ~1,235 hours (6.5 hours a day × 190 days)
​Chile: ~1,215 hours (6.4 hours a day × 190 days)
​Colombia: ~1,200 hours (6 hours a day × 200 days)
​Canada: ~1,170 hours (6.5 hours a day × 180 days)
​France: ~1,140 hours (7.5 hours a day, but only 152 days a year)
​Netherlands: ~1,140 hours (6 hours a day × 190 days)
​Ireland: ~1,073 hours (5.8 hours a day × 183 days)
​Japan: ~1,050 hours (5.5 hours a day × 190 days)
​Spain: ~1,025 hours (5.8 hours a day × 175 days)
​Germany: ~940 hours (5 hours a day × 188 days)
​South Korea: ~940 hours (5 hours a day × 188 days)
​Finland: ~935 hours (5 hours a day × 187 days)
​Poland: ~875 hours (4.7 hours a day × 186 days)

Teaching/learning hours break down differently though as some countrieshavea lot of "infill", longer breaks, more assemblies etc:

​Australia: 1,000+ hours
​Colombia: 1,000 hours
​United States: ~990 hours
​Chile: 978 hours
​Netherlands: 940 hours
​Canada: 917 hours
​Ireland: 915 hours
​France: 860 hours
​OECD Global Average: 805 hours
​United Kingdom: ~750 hours
​Japan: 750 hours
​Spain: 742 hours
​Germany: 700 hours
​Finland: 650 hours
​South Korea: 650 hours
​Poland: 540 hours

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/events/launch-of-oecds-flagship-report-education-at-a-glance-2025-hosted-by-hepi-on-tuesday-9-september-2025/?hl=en-GB

There is no correlation between more hours and better results. Finland and South Korea have 35% less teaching time than the US yet, on international PISA exams (obviously taken latef on at about 15) they outperform US (and Australia).

OECD data sees that peak performance sits around 24 to 27 hours of total lesson time per week. Classroom hours past that threshold leads to diminishing returns, student burnout, and fatigue.

I know this thread was really about starting school again 4 or 5 or 6 but I think the length of the school day is too much.
It was one of the reasons why we started to home-educate. Rural school. First on the bus and last off...
A very long day at age 4.

Macaydia

Mamie, you said that your grandmother, your mother, you and your daughter worked full time. So, I am wondering, who was the mother or caregiver of your mother, yourself and your daughter during the full-time parental absence?

(Praise to all of you for a good work ethic, sincerely.)

This work pattern was common in many families at the bottom of the money ladder in times past. my great grandmother, widowed at 36, pregnant with 4 living children had no alternative to working, together with her 12 year old son, to support the family. Her parents long dead. My grandmother was a WW1 widow with 2 small children an elderly mother and invalid sister to support. She managed. My mother manage. My father was in the military, always on the move far from family, almost always worked pre-school did take some of the strain but teaching and school age children are compatible. I worked part and then full time, without help from the time my youngest was 4.

Barbadosbelle

If the UK school day gets any shorter it might as well just give up

Wow! Is that a “Does the hot weather make you grumpy? comment.

UK schools do more days than either the US or France. I CBA to look up all the other countries, but many have 4 day weeks, or finish at 2pm. Teaching in France I had a 2 hour lunch break.
France has 8 weeks and US has even longer summer recess, sometimes as long as 12 weeks. Some teachers there worry about the impact of such a long break has on what the children recall.

Macaydia

I would cry if i had to leave my baby with someone else. I just didnt feel right about it, ever.

Not everyone feels like that though.

Mamie, you said that your grandmother, your mother, you and your daughter worked full time. So, I am wondering, who was the mother or caregiver of your mother, yourself and your daughter during the full-time parental absence?

(Praise to all of you for a good work ethic, sincerely.)

My children were gagging to start school at 4 especially the youngest one who really thought she was missing out She was always the youngest in her class as her birthday is end of August …All have good careers
I too started school at 4 years old as an only child I loved being at there

And impractible 👍

Cossy, I will accept that i have a ridiculous and outdated view. Still keeping it ! 😊

I would cry if i had to leave my baby with someone else. I just didnt feel right about it, ever.

Btw, when we required childcare, it was all privately sourced and paid for by us!

No state involvement whatsoever.

What about schools? Most of them are state funded?

Macaydia

To Mamie who asked me, "Do you think you have the right to judge other people's life choices?"
No, Mamie. I am not a judge and yes, I do state my opinion on matters, even if it's unpopular.

It’s not just about it being “unpopular” it’s totally impractical.

Some of us don’t have husbands in high paid jobs so our jobs count towards household income.

Our 5 children, all work, they seem just as stable as the few friends/peers who had “stay at home” mums.

It’s a really ridiculous and outdated view that only a loving mother can bring up a successful stable and happy child.

Our children in their twenties friends almost all of whom had working Mums, fewer for our two older ones, in their early forties, but probably about 60% of both parents worked.

When I attended school (I’m 67) many mothers worked.

Macaydia

I dont believe in governments raising a child and I dont think women should have children if they are not going to take responsibility for the child's upbringing.

How very judgemental.

I worked throughout all of my children and I can assure you I 1) had no choice financially and 2) both my hands-on husband and I took full responsibility for raising my children.

For 8 years, whilst they were little, (for three out of the four children) I worked in a 24 hour call centre so DH and I shared childcare. He went into work and started at 7:00am, I started work at 4:00pm, we shared all childcare and some of the housework. We discussed and agreed all aspects of childcare, their education, when and what they were allowed to do.

Our eldest daughter had 1 year off then returned to worked four days a week, when he was 1. Dad also worked 4 days a week (both did condensed/compressed hours, full time but across four days). DGS attended a very lovely private nursery until he started his equally nice country state primary school.

It doesn’t do children any harm whatsoever to be on decent childcare.

It doesn’t mean in any way whatsoever us working Mums are not good, caring, responsible parents.

Cronesrule

I agree they start school too early. Here’s a radical money saving idea, we cut school provision for under 5/6s and use the money on “constructive” childcare placements. I don’t think it matters if a child cannot read at age 6 as long as there is good quality education after that. Of course there will always be parents who think it is a race to have their child reading earlier than other children but in the end, by the time they are adults, this is not a measure of happiness or success in life!

👏👏👏👏👏

Daddima

*And NO: teachers teach, parents and grandparents SHOULD NOT.*

Interesting from * AuntieE* there. So, what were parents and grandparents doing when they were reading to children, talking and listening to children, letting them help with kitchen tasks like weighing, measuring, making things with leftover pastry, playing with liquids and various containers, drawing and painting, sorting shapes, going through granny’s button box or daddy’s coin collection, and that’s just off the top of my head!
I also never met a teacher who objected to a child being able to read when they started school. If you have a child who wants to read, I’d love to know how you would go about trying to stop them.

Brilliant post and response to a totally daft (imo) comment.

Cossy

I think those endorsing and explaining many children learn to read, count etc at young ages, need to take into account that the majority of this comes from home, in (normally) relaxed surroundings, geared around whether that young child wants to learn.

Our children started to read at home as all of them, without exception, were read to from the day they were born.

Counting and number recognition came from games we played with them.

Learning is fine, formal education with testing (which is used in infant schools onwards, not to test children’s understanding, but more as a stick with which to beat teachers), is something entirely different.

Even when our nursery and childcare settings are inspected by Ofsted, where in my opinion, the onus should be on safety, healthy eating and safeguarding, academic learning is looked at.

It’s all madness and is one of the reasons teachers leave in their droves!

Another reason teachers leave in droves is the dreaded p word!

M0nica

You cannot make sweeping claims about any group of children at any age.

DD taught herself to read around her 3rd birthday and when her older brother went to school she insisted I had to do 'proper' school' with her if she was at home when her brother was at school. I tried to palm her off with colouring, dot to dot books and similar things, but she wasn't having any of it. She wanted reading, writing and arithematic.

I have known other children not ready to read and learn in a structured way until 7.

As I said, you you simply cannot make rules about when children are ready to larn. I bet in many of those countries where formal learning does not start until,6 or 7. a significant number of children of that age are already reading fluenetly.

Equally teachers should not be judged by how easily their pupils learn and absorb information.

Various studies clearly show that it doesn’t actually matter when you actually master ready and numbers, most “normal average” children catch up by the time they are ready for Secondary school.

It’s only my opinion, but I think too much formal learning and not enough informal learning takes place in our nursery and infants school.

I think those endorsing and explaining many children learn to read, count etc at young ages, need to take into account that the majority of this comes from home, in (normally) relaxed surroundings, geared around whether that young child wants to learn.

Our children started to read at home as all of them, without exception, were read to from the day they were born.

Counting and number recognition came from games we played with them.

Learning is fine, formal education with testing (which is used in infant schools onwards, not to test children’s understanding, but more as a stick with which to beat teachers), is something entirely different.

Even when our nursery and childcare settings are inspected by Ofsted, where in my opinion, the onus should be on safety, healthy eating and safeguarding, academic learning is looked at.

It’s all madness and is one of the reasons teachers leave in their droves!

GrannyGravy13

We used Montessori for one of our children, have nothing but praise for that system.

For another it was pre-prep, just what they needed.

Both thrived in their environments.

Nursery and Reception classes are learning through play, or at least the ones I have experience of are 🤷‍♀️

Our eldest child attended Montessori, wonderful ethos and process.

Bazza

I could also read quite well at three MOnica, my older sister taught me how she had been taught at school and I loved it. I was no childhood genius though, as I was and still am, hopeless at anything numerical. I still love reading though.

I aam not talking about genius. I am talking about children being learning and reading ready at widely different areas.

Children in countries with formal school starting at 6 or 7, will have been attending nursery and kindergarten and many will be reading or on the point of reading by the time they start formal school.

You cannot compare the success or not of two entirely different school systems systems by simply noting what age it starts. The Finnish system is so different to ours in so many ways, schools are smaller and more local for one, especially at secondary level.