“We start school too early in the UK!”

In the Maternelle and nursery classes in France, children can start school once they are toilet trained. Formal education is compulsory from the age of three. From what I saw they are focussed on learning pre-school skills to be ready for the first Primary School class at 6.
I

... or father, or some other primary and important caretaker...

"I don't believe in governments raising a child and I don't think women should have children if they are not going to take responsibility for the child's upbringing".
I think you mean parents. It is the quality of care that counts. A good nursery is a much safer and more stimulating place for a child than poor parenting.

Going through nursery allows for better exposure, but the age when a kid starts doesn't matter so long as they are not above preschoolers. My opinion.

Mamie

"I don't believe in governments raising a child and I don't think women should have children if they are not going to take responsibility for the child's upbringing".
I think you mean parents. It is the quality of care that counts. A good nursery is a much safer and more stimulating place for a child than poor parenting.

Absolutely. And I think it's important to distinguish between children going to school or nursery from whatever age, and what - or how - they are actually being taught. Personally I don't think they do go to school (or nursery) too early here in the UK.

Macaydia

I dont believe in governments raising a child and I dont think women should have children if they are not going to take responsibility for the child's upbringing.

Why Governments? My children were lucky in having wonderful state nursery provision from a young age back in the 70s, but not all nurseries are LA run. With no LA nurseries nearby, my grandchildren went to excellent and carefully chosen private nurseries.
Do you think you have the right to judge other people's life choices? It is the results that matter.

Mamie

In the Maternelle and nursery classes in France, children can start school once they are toilet trained. Formal education is compulsory from the age of three. From what I saw they are focussed on learning pre-school skills to be ready for the first Primary School class at 6.
I

We almost moved to France many years ago and the one piece of advice that I had from parents over there was that the education system is very rigid and not something that we should subject our children to lightly.

I must agree with Luckygirl, ( especially about the screens!), and, when working in Early Years, I was always trying to champion the value of a stay at home parent, and the many practical learning opportunities that could arise for an adult and child to do together, as well as social and linguistic benefits. I remember going to a conference where one of the talks was about the damage done to children who were evacuees during the war, and causing quite a stir afterwards by suggesting to my colleagues that maybe in years to come we would be debating harm done by placing a child in nursery more or less from birth!
Of course, the world has changed, and we must equip these young people to take their place in this changed world, but I do think so many opportunities for creativity are being lost, even though I am assured that a child can be just as creative with screens and technology, as with paper and paint, or musical instruments.
I hae ma doots.

Luckygirl3

Mamie

In the Maternelle and nursery classes in France, children can start school once they are toilet trained. Formal education is compulsory from the age of three. From what I saw they are focussed on learning pre-school skills to be ready for the first Primary School class at 6.
I

We almost moved to France many years ago and the one piece of advice that I had from parents over there was that the education system is very rigid and not something that we should subject our children to lightly.

I would agree with that. When I taught English in Primary Schools (after retiring and moving to France), I found the curriculum rigid and schools lacking the resources that we are used to in the UK. I didn't spend much time in the Maternelle, apart from teaching some nursery rhymes and songs, but it seemed overall to be a happy environment with a well-planned curriculum. Going home for lunch was not allowed and the children sat down to a lengthy three course lunch (as we did in the staff room).
The system is like many other things in France; the state looks after you and you do your duty as a good citizen. Family is important, so on Wednesdays when schools were closed, you would see lots of grandparents in charge.

My lasting memories of école maternelle was watching a 3.5 year old having his picture torn up because he had used the wrong colours and being told that I had to say eet eez uh red bull to describe one of these. 🔴
Their do it a home workbooks which include maths reading and writing were very popular with some parents, who wanted their children to get ahead.

Starting too early and having too short summer break... everything is geared up towards working parents and not children wellbeing

Children are formalised into schools at far too young. Moat countries start school at 6 or 7. The pioneers of early childhood education such as Froebel, Montessori, Owen, McMillan and Isaacs all have demonstrated this alongside the importance of quality play. However, the economic factor of getting parents into work means that the children need institutions to be ‘cared’ for in. The cost of early childhood is high because of the ratios and numbers allowed but Scandinavian and other countries factor this into taxes unlike us. People complain about paying more for childcare than for a cleaner here! The best option we had were maintained nursery schools with children’s centres running alongside providing all day, all year care and highly trained staff. Those were mainly destroyed by the Conservative government so we have a mishmash of private, independent, school settings plus childminders and play settings. grandparents also play an important role. There is a price to pay for all of these but we must consider the suitability for very young babies and those with unique needs.
Quality play and learning costs and we need to invest in the future generations rather than forcing too much too soon.

Cossy

Much prefer the Scandinavian model, plenty of outdoors activities, plenty of play, plenty of time to form friendships and build confidence.

My daughter in Cornwall runs a school on these lines. Much of the time is spent outdoors. She is a great believer in not starting formal teaching too early. They need hand/eye coordination for holding tools, physical confidence etc first.

Macaydia

I dont believe in governments raising a child and I dont think women should have children if they are not going to take responsibility for the child's upbringing.

Other gender parents are also available for the raising of children.

I also think our children start school too young. My youngest grandson was six earlier this month and is in year 1. I’ll never forget him saying but it’s so long to playtime! His teacher put him on first concerns because he was not advancing with either reading or writing. He had absolutely zero interest in drawing, colouring or reading a book for himself. Yet in the last month all has changed. He suddenly found an interest in drawing and proved to be rather good at it. From there his writing has come along in leaps and bounds. It wasn’t that he couldn’t do it, he didn’t want to. But through play, at home he discovered something he wanted to do and he’s ready. I believe there was never a reason to be concerned, he simply wasn’t ready. Now he is.

Having lived in many countries and as an English Language examiner who travelled to Italy to examine in schools at least 60 times (and many other countries) then I agree with early learning, although through play. My grandchildren, who started their education at a Montessori school and are now 6 and 8 can both read perfectly, have a large vocabulary and are very bright for their ages. I found that in many countries, the children who had had no formal pre-school education were not as advanced as those in other countries who had.

When I started school in the 50s we went first term after our 5th birthday. When I started I could already read and do simple 'sums' as we used to call it. All learnt by every day things such as reading with parents, nan etc. We used to have a nap every afternoon after lunch on little camp beds and playtime before hometime. I think early education should start informally and without pressure, if kids are enjoying things and having fun, education sinks in of its accord. We put far too much pressure on all kids with formal education these days, it's no wonder they are growing up with mental problems.

Our children were brought up in the Netherlands. They start school on their 4th birthday but learn through play. They do not start formal education until they are six when they learn very quickly.

Observations from my own family are that many girls are ready to learn at age 4 but many boys are not. Girls retain this advantage until the mid teens. At that age boys have a 'brain' growth spurt but girls do not.
So delaying the start of formal education until 6/7 would be a disadvantage for girls it seems to me,

Macaydia

Babies and raising children is a full time job. Anyone can replace an employee at the workplace but no one can replace a (loving) mother in the home.

Are you suggesting that a father isn't just as capable of looking after his own children?

Whatever happened to the Sixties AS Neil Summerhill brigade.

Who thought that self directed learning and self regulation for children would cure the Worlds problems.

Was big with the London chattering classes at the time and feckless, upper class, hippy types who wanted to be seen as leading edge trendsetters.

Far out and solid Man!

Macaydia

To Mamie who asked me, "Do you think you have the right to judge other people's life choices?"
No, Mamie. I am not a judge and yes, I do state my opinion on matters, even if it's unpopular.

My opinion is that the important thing is that the children that we bring up are healthy, responsible citizens who go on to parent the next generation successfully. In my 76 years I have never seen any evidence that this is solely restricted to stay at home mothers. My grandmother worked full time, my mother, myself and my daughter the same. My granddaughters have embarked on their careers with a good work ethic.

I agree they start school too early. Here’s a radical money saving idea, we cut school provision for under 5/6s and use the money on “constructive” childcare placements. I don’t think it matters if a child cannot read at age 6 as long as there is good quality education after that. Of course there will always be parents who think it is a race to have their child reading earlier than other children but in the end, by the time they are adults, this is not a measure of happiness or success in life!

I think the problem is that one size doesn’t fit all. My eldest DD couldn’t wait to get to school at five but her sister hated it and would have definitely benefitted from starting formal education later. So I don’t know what the answer is, you can’t choose as a parent because that just wouldn’t work,

Macaydia, I'm not sure that I understand the relevance of your post at 15.25.
I breastfed my four children, and my three daughters breastfed theirs.
All of those babies were weaned from the breast between one and two, so I cannot see how this matters in discussing school entry ages.