Father removes 9 yr old daughter from school over sex ed lessons

SueDonim

I wouldn’t do what this father has done - gone to the papers. However someone in my family has withdrawn their 8yo child from these classes because of distress at what they were being told. The parents asked to see the materials being taught and it was handed over immediately. They decided it was inappropriate for their child just now and withdrew them from class.

There was no pushback at all from the school and indeed they got the impression that the head agreed that they were doing the right thing for their child.

Seems to me it depends on the Head of the school, amongst others.

It’s not simply children being taught about their own bodies VS - and the changes that will occur when puberty kicks in. That’s right and healthy - as is being taught to say no if someone tries to touch them inappropriately and to report sexual abuse. But children of that age don’t need to be taught how to give and receive pleasure in a sexual relationship, nor about anal or oral sex.

VioletSky

What I like about sex education now is that it is very focused on consent and making sure it's understood what is enjoyable.

In order that children learn enough so that they can't be taken advantage of, they need to know all the information and they need to know it should be comfortable and enjoyable not painful or scary

No more lying back and thinking of England

Paedophiles often excuse their behaviour by saying the child found it enjoyable and they were careful not cause pain or physical harm.

Surely sex with shouldn’t be justified to children as a positive thing as long as it is comfortable and enjoyable and the child consents.

Sex with a child is wrong.

Absolutely, Lathyrus.

Beetlejuice Year 4 children are 9. All the same, I don't think they are old enough to discuss anal (or oral) sex, but it's not quite the same as discussing any of it with 4 year olds, who are not even approaching puberty.

If you read the whole article in The Mail and do the research behind it, it’s been taken out of context, typical rag.

Kandinsky

*People are so gullible*

This from someone who appears to believe every word posted in 'Led by Donkeys', an Anti-Brexit campaign Group

😂 so true.

I can of course quote many other sources if you wish. But you are talking about another thread I believe which is against the rules.

Jaxjacky

If you read the whole article in The Mail and do the research behind it, it’s been taken out of context, typical rag.

Of course it has. It always is.

Lathyrus

VioletSky

What I like about sex education now is that it is very focused on consent and making sure it's understood what is enjoyable.

In order that children learn enough so that they can't be taken advantage of, they need to know all the information and they need to know it should be comfortable and enjoyable not painful or scary

No more lying back and thinking of England

Paedophiles often excuse their behaviour by saying the child found it enjoyable and they were careful not cause pain or physical harm.

Surely sex with shouldn’t be justified to children as a positive thing as long as it is comfortable and enjoyable and the child consents.

Sex with a child is wrong.

Anyone remember an organisation called Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) that group existed in the 1970s, and even received government funding at one time Their main objective was to abolish the age of consent "Paedophiles often excuse their behaviour by saying the child found it enjoyable and they were careful not to cause pain or physical harm" advocates of that! They certainly didn't represent anyone other than themselves promoting their own interests and beliefs and why trust a government, any government who would consider tacitly supporting such an organisation.

Whether the Daily Fail article is fake news or not, I'm absolutely astounded that their is a gransnetter who apparently supports young children in discovering what is sexually pleasurable, rather than lying back and thinking of England. It's true. They really do walk amongst us. That post made me feel physically sick.

Teaching about anal and oral sex will make the children think these activities are normal. Knowing children they will then experiment and not realise they are being abused by someone older.
I heard that these lessons are provided by an organisation called Jigsaw and some parents have been refused a look at the booklets.
Red flag surely. I suppose porn drives these people too.

Children are taught that too Lathyrus

That is the point in learning about consent.

They can't learn what is inappropriate without knowing what it actually is

Protecting children is literally the point here and perhaps many children who were abused would have had more defence if they knew what was happening to them.

Callistemon if you don't think there are still young women out there who don't have a full understanding that they are in control over what happens to their bodies.... You are very mistaken

Let's be clear that I still have primary age children and I work in a large academy. I'm happy to discuss actual sex education in schools and I'm not buying into Daily Fail hysteria

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s not simply children being taught about their own bodies VS - and the changes that will occur when puberty kicks in. That’s right and healthy - as is being taught to say no if someone tries to touch them inappropriately and to report sexual abuse. But children of that age don’t need to be taught how to give and receive pleasure in a sexual relationship, nor about anal or oral sex.

Agree with you there. We do need to be teaching children about consent from an early age, and that they should feel they can talk to someone if something has happened that they don't feel comfortable about.

TerriBull
I remember clearly how Harriet Harman &Jack Dromey dropped the ball spectacularly on that on.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Quotes a deleted post.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s not simply children being taught about their own bodies VS - and the changes that will occur when puberty kicks in. That’s right and healthy - as is being taught to say no if someone tries to touch them inappropriately and to report sexual abuse. But children of that age don’t need to be taught how to give and receive pleasure in a sexual relationship, nor about anal or oral sex.

Thank you for understanding most of what I am actually saying

However some children in primary are already expressing that they may be LGB so they need to know that those types of sexual relationships are ok because they may meet people who prevent them from expressing their sexuality later by insinuating some types of sex are wrong

Also sex is a normal healthy part of an adult relationship. It's not as big a deal as you think for children to grow up learning that the feelings they gain from puberty (which many now start in primary) are absolutely normal and fine

Couple that with learning consent and that they are also taught where to access help for inappropriate behaviour from adults...

Well you have a child who is more in control of their own lives and bodies

VioletSky

Children are taught that too Lathyrus

That is the point in learning about consent.

They can't learn what is inappropriate without knowing what it actually is

Protecting children is literally the point here and perhaps many children who were abused would have had more defence if they knew what was happening to them.

That is the pint of learning about consent.

Let’s be clear. A child cannot give consent. They may be coerced or persuaded into agreement or obedience but they can never give consent because they are not mature enough to understand.

But a programme of sex education that focuses on giving children “full knowledge” of sexual practices, of the concept of sexual enjoyment and the notion of consent removes that barrier.
The argument being they are fully educated in sexual matters they must have the understanding required for consent.

As TerriBull pointed out we have lived with this insidious argument before. I well remember the PIE and it’s campaign to legalise sex with children. I recognise the same attempts at confusion and persuasion.

The different was that then teachers were less susceptible to their persuasions be sore cared about the children not our own self image.

children of that age don't need to be taught how to give and receive pleasure in a sexual relationship, nor about anal or oral sex of course they don't GSM and it beggars belief that anyone could think they should.

Teaching children which parts of their bodies shouldn't be touched in otherwise acceptable circumstances and ways is sufficient when it comes to protecting them from abuse.

sex is a normal healthy part of an adult relationship exactly an adult relationship 9 year old's are children, not adults.

If you want to argue that sex education somehow enabled pedophiles Lathyrus you can do it with someone else given you know my history of abuse and that I would never place any child at risk.

If I had received the education on sex and consent that is actually happening in schools now (not the nonsense parroted here), I may have been able to protect myself and been able to get help. I had no idea what was happening until it was far too late for me

I will always advocate for safeguarding children and anyone who wants to twist that into something else doesn't deserve a respectful dialogue from me

Please listen and think of the implications of what you are saying. That children should taught to judge adult actions by what is “pleasurable” or makes them “uncomfortable”.

Paedophiles make great efforts to ensure that that sex is not painful or uncomfortable and that it gives pleasure. If a child is told that these are the criteria by which to judge then your reasoning that they are more equipped to deal with abuse is tragically false.

They need to be told that it is always wrong regardless of pleasure of comfort for an adult to seek sex with a child. It has nothing to do with comfortable or not they feel.

It's the programme of sex education that's potentially putting children at risk VS. As Lathyrus has posted correctly IMO, being fully educated in sexual matters does not necessarily equate with having the understanding required for giving consent.

I have no idea of any history of abuse you might have.

It’s irrelevant to the thread.

They need to be told that it is always wrong regardless of pleasure or comfort for an adult to seek sex a with child. It has nothing to so with comfortable or not they feel. Exactly Lathyrus.

nothing to do with (not so).