Father removes 9 yr old daughter from school over sex ed lessons

Just admit it Louella You've been taking advice from Sunak on culture wars. Ah, the Nasty Party spreads it's tentacles everywhere.

Another schoolday on GN. I hadn't realised London was the sex capital of the world. "Not even London" sounds like a family saying.

My headline for the article would be something along the lines of "Authoritarian father trys to stop school teaching daughter about the world around her". But then we do have a lot of authoritarian on GN, so no wonder so many agree with him.

I would never rely on a Daily Mail article.

rafichagran

Germanshepherdsmum

Why do 9 year olds need to understand ‘what is enjoyable’ VS? That sounds like encouraging them to experiment when they’re seriously under age. As you’re a TA, I have found your posts here rather worrying.

Me too, why should they even be thinking about that. They are children. I think sex education should be age appropriate.

That's what I was getting at upthread. The idea that adults should be telling children what 'should be enjoyable' is inappropriate. They need to learn that they don't have to do what is not enjoyable for them, but not 'made to understand' what they should and shouldn't enjoy. They need to work that out for themselves when the time is right.

Well Gramaretto, Mum taught me the basics and it was drilled into me that if I had sex before I was married no ‘nice’ man would want me. I bought a paperback from Boots for a bit more information. I was a virgin when I married at 19. I wish things had been different but time has moved on - sex education at school wouldn’t have made any difference, it was the mores of time and place which, I think, made my life so very different from what it might have been.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why do 9 year olds need to understand ‘what is enjoyable’ VS? That sounds like encouraging them to experiment when they’re seriously under age. As you’re a TA, I have found your posts here rather worrying.

Me too, why should they even be thinking about that. They are children. I think sex education should be age appropriate.

You and me both GSM.
So how did we learn? Or didn't we. I don't think I do know everything but it's never been a problem.
If I had learned about anal sex aged 9, it might have frightened me.

In my day it didn’t go beyond reproduction of frogs at grammar school! I can’t imagine any of our ageing spinster teachers tackling the modern curriculum!

Primrose53

When did they stop allowing parents to remove kids from lessons on religious grounds?

I was excused from RE lessons at grammar school as we were RC and myself and a few others were allowed to catch up on homework etc.

Parents can still withdraw children from RE at any time, they don't have to give a reason. The children must stay in school, though. When I was teaching, we had a few Jewish parents, Jehovah's witnesses and also some atheist parents who did this. You can also withdraw your child from daily assemblies.

*I am trying to picture any of my teachers talking to our class about sex and finding it impossible.
Teachers nowadays must be made of different stuff.*

When one of my DDs was a young supply teacher at a secondary school, she used to do it.
The other teachers were very grateful. Most did not want to have anything to do with it. And they felt increasingly out of date on the subject.

Whitewavemark2

From The Guardian earlier on this March 2023.

Reaction to Sunak’s statement that there was to be a review.

James Bowen, director of policy for the National Association of Head Teachers, said: “It is hard to be anything other than deeply concerned by this announcement.

“The overwhelming majority of schools are doing nothing more than following the government’s own statutory guidance when it comes to relationships and sex education. It is worth remembering that the current curriculum was subject to extensive consultation before it was introduced.

“We have seen no evidence to suggest there is a widespread problem with pupils being presented with age-inappropriate materials, and if this were the situation, we would expect it to have been picked up on a case-by-case basis.

“There is a real concern that this is a politically motivated review, rather than one based on the reality of what is happening in the vast majority of schools up and down the country.”

Thank you WWM.

I am trying to picture any of my teachers talking to our class about sex and finding it impossible.
Teachers nowadays must be made of different stuff.
I knew a nurse , an Irish woman with a GSOH, whose job it was to introduce sex education into schools. She was very down to earth and matter of fact
I imagine someone like her could do the facts of life and answer awkward questions but to primary aged DC?
Hmm.
My DGD learned how babies are made at primary school in a lesson and was disgusted saying she would never do that

Government guidance for (compulsory) Relationship, sex and health education.

Primary School

At primary school relationships education teaches children a wealth of information about healthy relationships, including how to communicate their own boundaries and recognise the boundaries of others, staying safe online, and the differences between appropriate and inappropriate or unsafe contact. We strongly encourage schools to include the teaching of different family models and same-sex relationships.

Health education should include puberty, including menstruation, and this should as far as possible be addressed before onset. It also focuses on teaching the characteristics of good physical health and mental wellbeing, and teachers should be clear that mental wellbeing is a normal part of daily life, in the same way as physical health.

Secondary School

At secondary school relationships and sex education covers content on a wider range of key topics including consent, sexual exploitation, online abuse, grooming, coercion, harassment, rape, domestic abuse, forced marriage, honour-based violence and FGM, and how these can affect current and future relationships.

Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way. There should be an equal opportunity to explore the features of stable and healthy same-sex relationships.

Health education focuses on enabling pupils to make well-informed, positive choices for themselves, and includes teaching about the impact of puberty. The curriculum covers mental health and will support young people to recognise and manage any wellbeing issues as well as how they can seek support as early as possible.

So I would think that what this being reported as being taught to primary school children is in fact what is recommended to be taught to secondary school pupils.

Fleurpepper

Led by Donkeys says the truth. Please give ONE example of them not doing so, please.

Led By Donkeys clearly is in line with your truth and agenda, Fleurpepper.

So you will slavishly believe everything they say because it suits you.

From The Guardian earlier on this March 2023.

The Guardian? Not exactly fans of the Conservatives.

But that was written in March. We're now in July. Maybe James Bowen will look into this complaint.

Led by Donkeys says the truth. Please give ONE example of them not doing so, please.

People are so gullible

This from someone who appears to believe every word posted in 'Led by Donkeys', an Anti-Brexit campaign Group

😂 so true.

From The Guardian earlier on this March 2023.

Reaction to Sunak’s statement that there was to be a review.

James Bowen, director of policy for the National Association of Head Teachers, said: “It is hard to be anything other than deeply concerned by this announcement.

“The overwhelming majority of schools are doing nothing more than following the government’s own statutory guidance when it comes to relationships and sex education. It is worth remembering that the current curriculum was subject to extensive consultation before it was introduced.

“We have seen no evidence to suggest there is a widespread problem with pupils being presented with age-inappropriate materials, and if this were the situation, we would expect it to have been picked up on a case-by-case basis.

“There is a real concern that this is a politically motivated review, rather than one based on the reality of what is happening in the vast majority of schools up and down the country.”

icanhandthemback

Although I am inclined to agree with you, choughdancer, it was something on tv that came up on during family viewing that suddenly made a relative say, "That reminds me of what x used to do to me when I was 6." Had she known what it was when she was much younger, she would have been able to alert somebody. As it was, although she didn't like it, she didn't know it was wrong so it continued for 2 years. By the time she realised, she was a hormonal teenager and has been struggling with suicide ideation ever since.
Now, I'm not advocating things like anal sex should be taught at that age but, sadly, there is certainly a need for more information for the young.

I think we really need to "hear" this, and that what is appropriate for 9 year olds should be considered in this light.

ie adequate information.

Was interested Smileless in what you said about lying back and thinking of England etc. I know someone well who worked in sexual and relationship counselling for NHS for 24 years and she has worked with huge numbers of women who have never orgasmed and know little about their bodies really and find it difficult to be open and we are talking women born well after most of us and have little idea of their playfulness, self expression and life enhancing of sex and sexualities...

...and men too for that matter. I'm not at all sure Victorian attitudes are as far behind us as some seem to think.

Why do 9 year olds need to understand ‘what is enjoyable’ VS? That sounds like encouraging them to experiment when they’re seriously under age. As you’re a TA, I have found your posts here rather worrying.

As everyone else has said, lessons need to be age appropriate and whilst I appreciate that children probably know a lot more than we did at that age. I can't remember what I knew at age 9, but I'm pretty glad I didn't have to be imbued with some of the explicit material that schools have for such lessons now. However different days, different influences, I was still fully immersed in a world of Enid Blyton as were many of my peer group.

The testaments of various parents I have read, MN is always quite revealing as to what is being taught and the increasing somewhat covert nature of it of late, in that there isn't a lot of transparency, this is why so many parents are feeling a growing disquiet.

Whilst we know that kids now have a knowledge about all manner of sexual practices that our generation wouldn't have had a clue about, isn't that because of their exposure to pornography which is hardly anything to crow about, knowing the pernicious effect it has on an immature mind at a crucial stage of development.

As far as learning about the fairly extreme practices of anal sex and strangulation for example, I hope it would be in the context of shoring up young people's resistance into coercion in partaking in any practice that could be damaging or dangerous to them and to imbue them with the fortitude to say no if they feel uncomfortable or unsure about anything, particularly when they are at an immature stage or even on the cusp of sexual awakening. Being taught about extreme sexual practices in a rather glib, nonchalant way of "oh this is what some people do" could, well be extremely damaging to some, there's hardly a one size fits all as to a level of maturity reached at any age, and parents should be consulted, they will be the ones who have the judgement an insight into their own child's development.

VioletSky

What I like about sex education now is that it is very focused on consent and making sure it's understood what is enjoyable.

In order that children learn enough so that they can't be taken advantage of, they need to know all the information and they need to know it should be comfortable and enjoyable not painful or scary

No more lying back and thinking of England

We are talking about under age children here. What you've just said about consent and enjoyment applies to 16 plus age group not 9 year olds! All this detailed sex education at primary school amounts to grooming by paedophiles who want children to accept sex as normal.

Have you read this I posted earlier? I'm not talking about the DM article, I'm talking about the teaching materials which are shown. From what you're saying presumably you think they are suitable for children.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12189041/Twelve-year-olds-taught-anal-sex-school-nine-year-olds-told-masturbate.html

Very sensible post, choughdancer. There's a definite balance to be had.

Although I am inclined to agree with you, choughdancer, it was something on tv that came up on during family viewing that suddenly made a relative say, "That reminds me of what x used to do to me when I was 6." Had she known what it was when she was much younger, she would have been able to alert somebody. As it was, although she didn't like it, she didn't know it was wrong so it continued for 2 years. By the time she realised, she was a hormonal teenager and has been struggling with suicide ideation ever since.
Now, I'm not advocating things like anal sex should be taught at that age but, sadly, there is certainly a need for more information for the young.

No more lying back and thinking of England good grief the only time I've heard that is when watching historical dramas, and not very good ones.

Sex education has always been a tricky area, as parents have different ideas about what they want their children to be taught about and at what age. I think that teaching about changing bodies and about what sex is is a good thing at 9. Children, especially girls, can be going through puberty then, and they shouldn't be frightened by what is happening to their bodies
This.

Sex education should be age-appropriate.

At that age, teaching it as part of a biology lesson is the right way to approach it, using a practical but sympathetic method for those approaching puberty. Teaching young children what many would regard as unnecessary or inappropriate sexual practices is wrong.