A-Level Exam Results (not us - our grandchildren!)

The Russell Group is basically a group of "elite" research-intensive universities. I think it's grown by few universities over the last ten years or so.

As Germanshepherdsmun says, employers wanting a graduate for a graduate position do still tend to choose one from a Russell Group. I think I read that more than 60% of graduate-level jobs requiring a degree go to these students.

Well that leaves 40% that don't insist on RG! I think many employers are a bit more open-minded than that and will look at the quality of the candidate. There are no doubt still companies that put old school tie / RG at the heart of their recruitment, but it is by no means universal. I think a lot of graduates would be in search of a more enlightened employer.
Disclaimer: My eldest DGD is a very much sought after RG university.

When the candidate has only just left (or maybe is still at) university, the employer has little information about their abilities beyond their exam results and which university they got into. It’s not about being enlightened, it’s choosing what looks like the best candidate for the particular job based on that limited information. The traditional professions look for people from Oxbridge and the RG universities, as I said. The old school tie is still alive and well in the law too.

Mamie - you are right. If about 60% choose Russell Group graduates, 40% obviously don't.
I'm not "sticking up" for the system, just adding to the debate and explaining to Hithere about the UK system.

If we go further back there would have been the same attitude to Red Brick universities as there currently is to the ex-Polys and Art-Schools. It would have been a term used in a derogatory way originally but now it most certainly is not. I expect all the Red Brick universities are now part of the Russell Group as they were centres of excellence in their own right.

Germansheperdsmum I think you will find that HR departments have a few more rules to follow these days and appointment procedures are bound by transparency and accountability. If a company cannot recognise a good candidate from an application, references, presentations plus traditional interview then their HR department is not doing its job.
Graduate intake is a priority area for FTSE companies. The processes match that.

I was one of the partners in my City law firm who dealt with some appointments Mamie. I can assure you that we were not interested in interviewing aspiring trainee solicitors whose cvs didn’t feature Oxbridge or RG. I do know what I’m talking about, much as you may not wish to hear it. The traditional professions are not, of course, FTSE companies and, within the law, they have their own rules and requirements for making appointments.

GD1 got her preferred place at Glasgow. DD1 is delighted she won’t be leaving home.

Well done to all pupils who have worked so hard to achieve their goals during the upheaval of the pandemic. Such a rotten time for them to deal with knowing their grades would dictate their future.

I wasn't talking about the law profession GSM. I have no experience of it and understand that it has its own processes. Members of my close family lead large teams in FTSE companies and others work in recruitment consultancy so I do know about that and am fascinated to compare how practice has moved on since my retirement.

It is a great shame to hear that about law firms though. They must miss out on a huge amount of talent by having the restrictive practices you describe.

I’m afraid I have no experience of anything but the legal profession (and local government early on). I have no doubt that FTSE companies have very different recruiting methods, but I wonder how many of that 40% go to them straight from university? There are many degree courses which would not equip a graduate for commerce and many ex-poly universities offering them.

It wasn’t this year, but a Singaporean niece who’d attended a U.K. boarding school for the sixth form, got enough points in her IB for her choice of university, which was a good Russell Group one.

However academic pressure in Singapore is so intense that unless you get the equivalent of 3 x A*s, and are headed for Oxbridge or perhaps Imperial, the general reaction is, ‘Oh dear, never mind’. Poor niece was very downcast - it took genuine congrats from me and dh to perk her up a bit.

I don’t think they miss out at all Mamie. The law is very demanding and the primary requirements are those which get you a good degree from a good university - the ability to think deeply, analyse and apply the results of that analysis. I’m sure you wouldn’t wish to be represented by a lawyer who is a lovely person from a difficult background but doesn’t give you correct advice on your tricky problem. Believe me, they exist.

The father of one of my students works for one of the Magic Circle law companies and GS is right. They are only interested in considering the CVs of graduates from a handful of universities.

My daughter is an HR manager and is more flexible, but the university attended is still given a great deal of weight. She was a fast track civil service trainee and was one of the few non-Oxbridge recruits.

My daughter was an Oxbridge student, it was pressurised as she had a lot of additional classes in her lunch hour, you've reminded me she took her International Baccalaureate alongside her 4 'A' levels. She went to Leeds and did an additional year in Canada, getting an International degree.

The problem is that getting to a "good" university is of course about getting good results, but it is also about understanding how the system works and being able to target an application. Young people who are the first generation to go to university and attend schools that do not regularly send large numbers of their cohort there may not have the experience and insight needed to manipulate the system. Independent schools have this down to a fine art which is probably why entrants from state schools regularly outperform the students from these schools when they get there. (A bit like 11+ coaching).
Industry, commerce and finance will have to be a bit more open-minded to recruit the graduates that they need.
Would I have confidence in someone's ability just because they had been to Eton and Oxfored - er no.
The Mumsnet thread on the strategies needed for entry to medical school is fascinating. Three or four A*s guarantees nothing.

.... or even Oxford ?

I remember the nightmare of getting my daughter's 'statement' written for Cambridge. The Head of English was willing to meet with her and others during lunch hours/after school, and the draft was written and rewritten several times. We knew the local private school had a professional doing it for the kids there. My daughter's two friends did get into Cambridge and worked very, very hard. I'm glad they are all still close friends even though they went to different Unis.

Of course, now the GCSE results are out.
Lower than last year but higher than 2019, apparently.

GD has done so well, brilliantly, and we are so proud.

7 x9s, 2 x8s, and 1x 7

She goes to a great private school, with great facilities, great teachers, small classes, and has been taught in small classes, and full timetabled zoom lessons throughout the pandemic, and extra classes to prepare for exams. Plus own computer, in own room with desk and space to study, books, and parents and GPs who have expert knowledge which cover all the subjects. Her exams were marked externally by people who did not know whether she had no lessons during pandemic, shared 1 bedroom (or none) on top of highrise buidling, without a computer or access to books or support.

We are so proud of her- but we all know and acknowledge that she had a very unfair and very luck advantage. Not her fault, that is for sure- but the reality all the same.

Her school has great music, drama, sport facilities. And fabulous facilities for all subjects, with small classes of 15 to 18.

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Ah well - fuel for the independent v. state school debate?

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