Refusing an unvaccinated person entry to a club or organisation

I am a member of the WI in England and we are not allowed to ask people’s vaccination status nor ask for the results of a LFT. We do have strict Covid guidelines to follow and we have to complete a risk assessment for every meeting in order for our insurance to be valid. So we ask members to do an LFT, wear masks while moving around, use hand sanitiser etc. The committee have to clean certain high touch areas before a meeting, we have chairs socially distanced and door and windows open for ventilation. So lots of precautions but we cannot turn people away who do not comply.

Could you not just say you don’t have any vacancies at the moment?
She would be unlikely to challenge that I would have thought.

If she was allowed to join, how would the existing members feel?
Very uneasy probably.

Those who are foolish enough to refuse the vaccine should expect to have certain activities curtailed in my opinion.

Does the law take a position on this? I’ll ask my barrister son tomorrow (but I have no idea what area of law this would fall under, but as his are Employment and Commercial, he may not have a view.)

The rules in Wales are different from those in England

I'm sure you wouldn't be under the same sort of obligation as a workplace, legally.
Just stop accepting any new members for a while, then you haven't discriminated, or lied, perhaps?

What is a shame is that the onus on you as individuals which makes it personal . It’s a no-win.
If you accept her there will be those with reservations, if you reject her you may be contributing to her isolation and loneliness (even if it is her “own” fault.)
I don’t envy you.

You could be challenged if this has no legal basis.

It probably wouldn't happen if put nicely but it's worth checking the rules for the particular area.

Dearie me.

Doesn't sound like the sort of choir I'd want to join. ?

Given the rise in new cases in Wales which are 50% higher than last week I would ask the commitee
A. to discuss whether they think it is in their members interest to postpone meetings pro-tem.
B. to discuss whether to accept the unvaccinated.

Presumably you cant contravene the equality act though.

It is an interesting debate. Legally I think we can do what we choose - it is a "private" organisation and people get refused if they can't sing in tune, and would be turned away if they rolled up and waved a loaded gun around. I cannot see that there is any law that says we must admit anyone.

It is interesting to speculate which places/organisations would be unable legally to make that choice - public transport maybe? - or a hospital? - or a council building?

Unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus (simply because they are more likely to get it), or the whole issue of vaccine passports would simply not arise; and Novak would not be sitting in the sort of hotel accommodation that does not befit his station!

Singing is a know high risk activity for spread, which is why there have been difficult decisions for us to make.

One thing to take into account is whether you have existing members who are particularly vulnerable due to age, pre-exisiting conditions or low immune system, etc- and how they feel about this.

I prefer to stay at home and wait until everything is safe.
People who are at risk have been advised to do that again, so why should I insist on going out where people are gathering and force others to stay at home?

My friend (not close I see her once a month but have known her since childhood) is unvaccinated as she doesn’t ‘agree with it’ she landed in hospital before christmas for 3 days having difficulty breathing she tested positive but told me they must have mixed her test up with someone else’s as it was the landlord, who hadn’t fixed her boiler’s, fault for her breathing difficulties . whilst in she was told she had a heart problem and came home with thinners but started having nose bleeds etc so chucked the tablets away sooner than go back and ask for the dose to be reduced or be retested Pig headed is the only word that comes to mind

Aveline

I'd have thought that an unvaccinated person was more at risk from you others than vice versa?
DH is just out at a car club dinner at which the president is proudly (stupidly anti vax). DH makes sure to cough loudly as he passed this person to see him flinch. I know. He's as bad a person as me.

No, what gives you that idea, vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid
Vaccine Deployment Minister Nadhim Zahawi said:
Today’s results show the positive impact of the vaccination programme with those who are double jabbed three times less likely than unvaccinated people to get the virus and less likely to pass on this awful disease to those around them. From this study
www.gov.uk/government/news/react-study-shows-fully-vaccinated-are-three-times-less-likely-to-be-infected

One thing to take into account is whether you have existing members who are particularly vulnerable due to age, pre-exisiting conditions or low immune system, etc- and how they feel about this.

OH plays bridge with a group with 2 ladies in their 90s, and 2 in their 60s are antivax. He is not happy at all about them putting older and frailer members at risk, but they themselves agreed.

I suppose she didn’t have to tell you she is unvaccinated?

AGAA4

In Wales we are asked to do LFTs if meeting others. I think that is all you can reasonably expect.
I don't feel she should be excluded because of her vaccination status. I am not a legal professional but I don't think there would be any legal reason for exclusion.
Even those of us who are fully jabbed can pass on covid.

I agree.
We're treading a dangerous path here.

I've had another precautionary shielding letter so have decided not to attend some groups which are still meeting in person. Others have decided not to meet pro tem.

I am guessing that unless there is something relevant in your Ts and Cs( unlikely unless they have been revised recently), there is no legal reason to refuse this person. On the other hand, I guess there is no obligation to accept new members? However, she has informed you that she is unvaccinated, so presumably there will be discussion about this.
Personally I would not be very happy to have her, but as long as LFTs are done by everyone before rehearsal, one can hope for the best. My choir asks us all to do LFTs but we are not asked to prove anything, so a lot is taken on trust. Several members have chosen not to return yet, and that is their decision. Given the current number of cases, I don’t blame them. Singing is a risky activity, but we do practise social distancing and have windows open.

In Wales we are asked to do LFTs if meeting others. I think that is all you can reasonably expect.
I don't feel she should be excluded because of her vaccination status. I am not a legal professional but I don't think there would be any legal reason for exclusion.
Even those of us who are fully jabbed can pass on covid.

I rather like the sound of your husband Aveline.

Yes, members shoud discuss this and decision made by them.
However, what happens if the majority votes for accepting new member, and they then feel they, long term members, feel they have to leave?

I'd have thought that an unvaccinated person was more at risk from you others than vice versa?
DH is just out at a car club dinner at which the president is proudly (stupidly anti vax). DH makes sure to cough loudly as he passed this person to see him flinch. I know. He's as bad a person as me.

I don't know what your legal position may be Luckygirl but as anyone, including those vaccinated can catch and pass on Covid, and as this person is prepared to take an LFT and wear a mask, is their risk to the rest of the group any greater than any one else's?

In your position I would ask the other members how they feel and go from there.

I am not sure what the law is, but I would expect everyone in a group like yours to do lateral flow tests before each rehearsal anyway, and if hers is negative, then she is not a danger to you.

I would have thought your smaller group would also have wanted lateral flow tests before every rehearsal.

I have family members coming for lunch tomorrow, we have all done lateral flow tests this evening.

Oh this'll be good.