Refusing an unvaccinated person entry to a club or organisation

Totally agree Luckygirl 13.

Refusing someone on the grounds of colour, religion, sexual orientation, etc- is totally different- as you can't 'catch' those- and they can't endanger existing members who may have reduced immunity.

I might have a different view about things - it's not just about having different views. It is about one person accepting the science and another not. One is denying fact - that is not an opinion.

We can have an opinion about scientific facts - e.g. I do not like it that Omicron is highly infective; or It is a relief that vaccines work so well. Those are opinions about the facts. But the facts do not change in response to our opinions about them.

There are many people now dead whose opinion was that covid was "just a cold." They were entitled to their opinion; but it did not change the facts.

Galaxy - interesting point about Equality Act. I do not know what that act says about this situation. Does anyone have knowledge of this?

The group which has a committee.

Galaxy

Are you saying they are exempt from the equality act.

Who- those who are put at risk due to age, pre-existing condition of low immune system?

Teacheranne

I am a member of the WI in England and we are not allowed to ask people’s vaccination status nor ask for the results of a LFT. We do have strict Covid guidelines to follow and we have to complete a risk assessment for every meeting in order for our insurance to be valid. So we ask members to do an LFT, wear masks while moving around, use hand sanitiser etc. The committee have to clean certain high touch areas before a meeting, we have chairs socially distanced and door and windows open for ventilation. So lots of precautions but we cannot turn people away who do not comply.

I'm not part of any groups but my daughter attends an RDA group and they have similar guidelines

Are you saying they are exempt from the equality act.

Msida 'Why would anyone be treated differently'-

why should exisiting members be faced with risks they are not happy and comfortable with. Where is their right? If someone feels they have to leave the choir they have attended for years- would that not be 'treated differently'?

Galaxy

I think we are saying that we can all invent our own laws. I am quite looking forward to it to be honest. I will be brilliant at it.

It is a private members' club- so they can make their own rules. But should respect the views, and the safety, of existing members. Fair, surely.

Interesting summary of a study from Australia.

Herd immunity was mentioned at the beginning of the pandemic here.

What percentage of people qualifies for herd immunity?
Does it apply to the percentage of people fully vaccinated too? Would that qualify for herd immunity or not?
If not, are the vaccines not offering protection?

Galaxy

The WI will have access to legal advice, HR and just all sorts of support that small groups wont. My guess is their decision making is more reliable.

Mind you, I drew the line when their first guidance told us that we had to clean the toilets at our venue as well! Fortunately when the country reopened after the second lockdown, the new guidance was more sensible. We had our first face to face meeting in August and have met monthly ever since. I hope our January meeting takes place, it’s at the end of the month so we should know more about the Omicron variant by then.

The choir I sing with has closed for the time being.

Singing is high risk as we know, and our rehearsal room is just not big enough to socially distance..... plus it's always freezing in there (high ceilings, very old building) during the winter at the best of times, and with windows open for ventilation, it's far from ideal. No one wants to sing in coats and scarves and wearing masks, or to risk getting Omicron.

Yes , because you are part of a group, & the majority want others to wear a mask.
What you do away from this group would be down to you as long as you are not endangering others.

Why would anyone be treated differently

It's the only time 8 agee that we are all in this together

Usually I hate that phrase because we most certainly are not all in this together in the same way, it is not all effecting us in the same way

For eg it's very different for those that have a Villa in France or Italy to get away to till its all over

I think we are saying that we can all invent our own laws. I am quite looking forward to it to be honest. I will be brilliant at it.

What if the others are just the lady that runs the local choir? Does she have the right to put restrictions on me just because I might have a different view about things than she does?

Have we all gone mad, really? Pitchforks and flaming torches will be available at Tesco's from next week.

Fine if folks don’t want to be vaccinated, but please accept the restrictions that others may put on you.

Luckygirl3

Ah - but we are living through a pandemic and the cult of individualism has had its day - thank goodness. It IS everyone's business because we are all in this together. Community interdependency and conscience are what matters.

Is anyone else reminded of that scene in Cabaret in the beer garden?

Or 1984, maybe?

Well I would have thought what is legal might matter as well. And we cant impose our individual conscience on people.

Ah - but we are living through a pandemic and the cult of individualism has had its day - thank goodness. It IS everyone's business because we are all in this together. Community interdependency and conscience are what matters.

She then rang back to tell me she was not vaccinated, nor all her family - and that this was by choice rather than for a medical reason

I think that for me, it is the addition of “all her family” - surely this poses a greater communal risk?

If anyone asked me whether I was vaccinated or not I would politely tell them that it was none of their business.

I am just surprised that you are allowed to meet and hold a choir practice!

With our without masks, during our lockdowns all choirs were banned from holding choir practices unless over Zoom.

Church services were, once they were allowed to be held, with masks and without any hymn-singing or Gregorian chant,

Now you have to have a corona pass to be admitted.

Oh sorry I have just seen you are in Wales, is the law different there does a negative lft not count.

Also would you like to complete the end of the sentence with regard to covid passes for venues such as football matches. One of the following ....., vaccination is not the only criteria.