Covid 19 - Lift all restrictions?

I am sure you are right PippaZ I would not dream of interpreting a legal document I have solicitors for that.
This is a grans chat webpage I only do my best not to be rude patronising and talk down to fellow posters
I am pretty good with number crunching but that’s as far as it goes

No, I'm not "cross". Putting the facts over is not "cross". Telling someone they sound "cross" is a silly way of trying to diminish their opinion.

If, 2 years ago, someone had told us that the government was going to prevent us from hugging an elderly relative, that we weren't allowed to leave our homes, that we had to wear a mask in public, we'd have thought it was the start of a coup.

Taking these measures is necessary, but as soon as we start to think its not a big deal, we are giving up freedoms that we used to take for granted.

Telling someone that they are cross when they are pointing out the the government has limited our freedoms is a bit ridiculous, really.

Not offended (goodness, is there no other adjective available other than "offended?"), not seeking clarity right now, and I certainly give a damn about others.

Obviously my disclaimer wasn't clear enough. We have to do it. But we don't have to like it and we don't have to think its normal.

I am not going to argue as I am not the government Alegrias1 and you "sound" very cross. That is what it says. Not what I say but what the government has said. I think you are exaggerating the whole issue so a "reasonable and reasoned discussion" does not exist. You can make it difficult or make it easy. You can think of others or not give a damn. Nothing I say will make a difference if you have decided you are offended by what you are determined to see as a lack of the clarity you want RIGHT NOW.

I'll get my disclaimers in first; we have to keep following the rules for now and I'm not advocating dumping everything and just getting on with it.

But to assert that they are not asking a lot is not correct. Look at this list.

Hands face space; cover your face in public and stay far away from people you don't know. I understand why its required but its not natural.

Covid secure measures; what might these be? Signing up to apps that track your movement? Giving your personal details to shop assistants and baristas? Booking a couple of days in advance if you fancy a pint?

Meeting outdoors when we can; what does that mean? "allowing" us to meet indoors but recommending that we don't? Has any government ever tried to tell us that we can't go into each others homes, or hug our relatives?

Get tested when needed; it used to be get tested if you were showing symptoms. Now its "twice a week, symptoms or not". And they used to say that the test was unpleasant and we shouldn't use it on elderly people as a matter of course, as it might upset them.

So, while all these things might be necessary, don't let's pretend that they are not asking a lot, because they are.

rosie1959

PippaZ again just my opinion it reads to me as we go through to step 4 all social distancing remains Once we hit step 4 all restrictions are hoped to be lifted You cant for instance open night clubs and keep to social distancing.
Pubs and restaurants have to be open at full capacity if they are going to recover
But we shall see whatever you or I think is quite irrelevant

Please promise never to help anyone understand any legal document. Interpreting it to suit your "opinion" will not help them. This paragraph does not appear after step 3, which could then lead us to an understanding that they want us to continue all in the paragraph until then but that the guidance stops with step 4.

These people are guided by lawyers. Putting it at the end, after all the roadmap steps, will have been done for a purpose. What you or I think is not irrelevant and neither is what we tell others. Our future good health and the health of other will depend on all of us doing these things or the government would not have bothered to tell us at all. At the end of the steps they are still asking us to:

1. Carry on with ‘hands, face, space'.
2. Comply with the COVID-Secure measures that remain in place.
3. Meet outdoors when we can and keep letting fresh air in.
4. Get tested when needed.
5. Get vaccinated when offered.

They are not asking a lot and it is only the selfish and self-centred who think they don't need to do as they are asked.

My DGS (KS3/4) school has said masks must still be worn. Staff where I work are still wearing masks and/or visors. Some Year5/6 children do wear masks, but it’s their choice.

I've heard from my tutees that schools have told pupils they no longer need to wear masks in classrooms, but most of them are and give a wide berth to anybody who isn't. Maybe they have more sense than we give them credit for.

Greeneyedgirl
My grandson school stopped mask wearing a week ago.

I suspect the rates may be more widespread than we think JaneJ and your concerns are understandable, particularly before half term and mixing with wider family perhaps.

Haven’t they recently decreed that mask wearing in schools is no longer necessary too?

You are all going to laugh at me but I don't want my school age children going into school next week as it is all so close to home.

Maybe it is easier if you area has never had a very high rate of infection.

My concern is that if data is being withheld how will we know the current situation. Johnson said last week that everything is on course for the next stage in the roadmap, but it seems to me that it is still too early to tell how things will progress. We really do need some transparency about reasons for decision making.

Greeneyedgirl

I don’t know if there any teachers on this thread, but I think there are concerns from scientists about the rapid spread of the new variant in schools. It’s all over Twitter today, and the Observer ran an article headed No 10 ‘tried to block’ data of the new variant in English schools.

If this is the case then it is worrying because a large section of the population have not yet had 2 vaccinations, and there could be a big rise in cases just as the government lifts all restrictions.

It's been reported by a number of sources, so it does appear to be true. People who have read what's left of the report are also claiming that it and the "headlines" don't match. In addition, there is data coming through that the R level is above 1 (not unexpected) and is rising. If it continues to rise, the brakes need to be put on.

I don’t know if there any teachers on this thread, but I think there are concerns from scientists about the rapid spread of the new variant in schools. It’s all over Twitter today, and the Observer ran an article headed No 10 ‘tried to block’ data of the new variant in English schools.

If this is the case then it is worrying because a large section of the population have not yet had 2 vaccinations, and there could be a big rise in cases just as the government lifts all restrictions.

It’s all trial and error. I was horrified by all of the protest marches last year but they did seem to prove that open air events weren’t necessarily super spreader events. I’m astounded that there is another week where people travelling back from red countries will still have to queue with people from amber countries at Heathrow with what appears to be little social distancing in an enclosed space. Yet another case of something that should have been done straight away.

Give in let's just see what happens

58,000 people took part in the test events in UK of them 15 have since tested positive.

rosie1959

PippaZ again just my opinion it reads to me as we go through to step 4 all social distancing remains Once we hit step 4 all restrictions are hoped to be lifted You cant for instance open night clubs and keep to social distancing.
Pubs and restaurants have to be open at full capacity if they are going to recover
But we shall see whatever you or I think is quite irrelevant

Who on earth said they shouldn't eventually open at full capacity?

That's why there have been some trials in night clubs and at sporting events. Only an absolute idiot would open everything without trials and without considering the outcomes.

PippaZ

rosie1959

maddyone I can see nothing wrong with your post seemed perfectly reasonable

So you think people are suggesting we stay locked up forever, too? This is an 'exaggeration fallacy'. No one has said any such thing. There were a couple more but this is boring now - and I still haven't seen what point was being made but that is the problem when you use over-exaggeration to try and make your point; It overwhelms the actual argument.

Well said Pippa. I assumed the claims did have a name, but I didn't know what it was.

PippaZ again just my opinion it reads to me as we go through to step 4 all social distancing remains Once we hit step 4 all restrictions are hoped to be lifted You cant for instance open night clubs and keep to social distancing.
Pubs and restaurants have to be open at full capacity if they are going to recover
But we shall see whatever you or I think is quite irrelevant

Pippa It's absolutely astonishing how people interpret this so differently and totally ignore the part you've written in italics.

If people aren't wearing masks correctly, maybe there should be posts about encouraging correct usage, rather than using it as an excuse for abandoning them.

rosie1959

PippaZ we are due to lift all restrictions in a few weeks I have only tried to put forward why this should not be held up if nothing changes from now
I only can put down my opinion and I try I hope not to talk down or be rude about anybody else's thoughts

Are we? So we will have been told we will be able to go anywhere and do anything with no thought to the virus transmission? That is not what I read on the government web site.

The government actually says, at the end of the possibilities suggested in the "Road Map"

As we move through each of these phases in the roadmap, we must all remember that COVID-19 remains a part of our lives. We are going to have to keep living our lives differently to keep ourselves and others safe. We must carry on with ‘hands, face, space’. Comply with the COVID-Secure measures that remain in place. Meet outdoors when we can and keep letting fresh air in. Get tested when needed. Get vaccinated when offered. If we all continue to play our part, we will be that bit closer to a future that is more familiar.

PippaZ we are due to lift all restrictions in a few weeks I have only tried to put forward why this should not be held up if nothing changes from now
I only can put down my opinion and I try I hope not to talk down or be rude about anybody else's thoughts

GrannyGravy13

Maybee70 which is why there is a 5 week gap between each stage of the Government’s road map . If all the conditions are not met by June 14th then the restrictions will not be fully lifted on June 21st.

But I get the impression on here that some people want all restrictions to be removed ASAP. especially mask wearing.

rosie1959

maddyone I can see nothing wrong with your post seemed perfectly reasonable

So you think people are suggesting we stay locked up forever, too? This is an 'exaggeration fallacy'. No one has said any such thing. There were a couple more but this is boring now - and I still haven't seen what point was being made but that is the problem when you use over-exaggeration to try and make your point; It overwhelms the actual argument.

Luckygirl

The virus is scary.....but there is a difference between that and scaremongering.

When precautions are taken to protect us, then those setting the precautions need to explain why - that is not scaremongering; it is conveying the facts on which the decisions are based.

My view is that proper precautions should have been taken from day on to prevent us getting into the situation we now have.

We do indeed need to learn to live with this virus - and part of living with it might involve lockdowns when and where appropriate.

I agree with Luckygirl. Unfortunately, there are some who seem to think that if they don't face up to something, it will magically disappear.