Covid 19 - Lift all restrictions?

Rosie1959 of course urgent treatments are being prioritised. However anybody who believes that the waiting lists created by a year of major disruption to services is very sadly mistaken. If it was possible to see patients at the same rate as pre-pandemic (eg 50 people attending a clinic) then there would be some chance, but that can’t happen because of the infection control measures now needed, most services can only operate at 50-70% of previous capacity, so lists are still growing. If infection control measures weren’t needed, and all staff in elective services worked 20% more hours every week, it would take 5 years to clear the backlog. The Government needs to spell this out to the public instead of blaming the NHS.

Well we dont have that long to wait to find out what if any restrictions will be amended in June
Then it will up to individuals to make their own choices on what restrictions are lifted or altered

BusterTank

With all the new variants cropping up ,the jabs we have had will soon be as much use as a chocolate tea pot . So opening everything up and people making there own risk assessments , doesn't sit comfortable with me . From what we have seen over the last year people don't care about risk assessments , as long as they are having a good time . All those who were told not to mix , not to fly , not travel outside there areas did they take the risk involved into account , no . All you seem to get is it our human rights , or we deserve it after being shut in doors . So I think by opening thing up and letting people take the risk , we are signing a lot of death certificate's .

So you dont believe the scientists then. They are all saying that the vaccine and the masks etc are working and that the vaccine is still working against all the variants at present, maybe not as well but working. This virus is not going to go away. So we have to make sure that the NHS can cope with any people who may still need hospitalisation. Hopefully with more and more people being vaccinated it will only be the very vulnerable or those who refuse to have the vaccine that will need hospitalisation and also that way less people will die.

As someone in the shielding group, despite having both vaccines I must admit to feeling quite anxious about the risks but at the same time I do feel that we do need to return to 'normal life' taking sensible precautions.

The question must remain to what degree do we use precautions? Perhaps we need to make that a personal decision?

MayBee70

And how long does it take after the second vaccination for full immunity to kick in? I agree that once everyone is vaccinated we need to review things. But it takes several months after the first vaccination for good immunity to kick in. Dare I say that you want to get back to normal because you’ve had both vaccines but are not considering those that haven’t had one vaccination yet and those that have only just started their vaccination programme. Several countries that have dropped their guard too soon have ended up with escalating infection rates. My son is having his first vaccine tomorrow but is now having to go back to work in his office. I’ll be pretty annoyed if he catches covid because the infection rate is rising and he hasn’t had the full vaccination programme.

Full immunity doesn't exist. Everyone has been told that. It doesn't stop everyone from catching the virus it makes it less dangerous if you do. When you have the flu jab every year its the same. It doesn't stop every person from getting flu it just makes it less likely for people to be hospitalised or to die. All the precautions we have been taking for the last 14 months has been to try and protect the NHS from being overwhelmed. The scientists are even getting info now that had begun to prove that the trends were already going down before lockdowns were in place, at least in the UK.

I've also read on the BBC News that in the US they have been told that if they have had two vaccines, after the 2nd one, two weeks later you don't need to wear a mask anymore! I dont know if thats true though.

It wasn’t so much that the virus was/is highly infectious, but that the staff were not obeying the rules. Not my words: jeramy hunt.

Do you really believe that MerylStreep? NHS staff knew better than anybody how important infection control measures were. However they didn’t have adequate protection, they weren’t trained adequately about the routes of transmission as the evidence wasn’t there, especially ward based staff who didn’t even have FP3 masks for much of their work, staff were moved from one area to another frequently due to increased patient numbers resulting in different roles for them - they put their lives on the line in a way never seen before - but it was their fault. Come on now. How dare he!

As covid is going to be with us permanently maybe we have to learn how to live in such a way that we think of others and not just ourselves. Many doctors and nurses wear glasses but also wear masks to protect us: how do they manage? And I don’t think covid will be with us forever. SARS 1 isn’t. But if we drop our guard the minute everything seems to be getting better we’ll just constantly be taking one step forward and two steps back.

Buttonjugs will get him to try that he does avoid going anywhere as much as possible where masks are necessary for any length of time.
Surely though the wire at the top enables a tighter fit

Bustertank as Covid is going to be with us permanently how long should it be before we allow business to open properly

rosie1959

MayBee I don’t think anyone is debating anyone’s freedom to wear a mask if they wish
I was shopping with my daughter of course wearing a mask it made me hot and uncomfortable and I don’t know why it tends to make me feel I cannot think straight
And as for my poor DH who cannot see without his glasses he ends in a permanent fog although we have found wipes that help. But he also hates them with a passion
I actually haven’t spoke to any friends who want to carry on wearing them.

I wear one of the paper disposable masks. I put it on upside down and that enables my glasses to sit on the top edge of the mask. My glasses don’t mist up.

With all the new variants cropping up ,the jabs we have had will soon be as much use as a chocolate tea pot . So opening everything up and people making there own risk assessments , doesn't sit comfortable with me . From what we have seen over the last year people don't care about risk assessments , as long as they are having a good time . All those who were told not to mix , not to fly , not travel outside there areas did they take the risk involved into account , no . All you seem to get is it our human rights , or we deserve it after being shut in doors . So I think by opening thing up and letting people take the risk , we are signing a lot of death certificate's .

We didn't go out other than to the supermarket, wore masks, handwashing etc, yet all of us in our household caught it, and my husband was hospitalised for weeks with it and is a covid long-hauler. I went to the vaccination centre last week, wearing my own, tightly fitting layered face covering, yet was requested to replace it with the regulation, baggy, ill fitting panty liner everyone seems to think is a safety measure. No, I have no faith that masks are effective.
I've no doubt there are many infectious diseases which are out there and which can adversely affect people who have underlying conditions or have compromised immune symptoms, but mask wearing against those is not required.
I feel there are many posters on here who are very judgemental of those on either side of the mask argument. Perhaps we could agree to the tolerant of all, no matter what stance they take on masks, and not to criticise those who feel safer continuing to use them, and not criticising those who do not.
Personally, I'm not going out leisure shopping, socialising, restaurants and pubs while masks are required. I find them detestable on so many levels, and so I won't be participating in anything requiring them, and thereby am not affecting those who are happy to participate and wear them.
Perhaps we can agree to disagree.

The extremely selfish people who refuse to be vaccinated should not be allowed to enter cinemas, theatres, restaurants etc until they do get vaccinated. The NHS app which shows the dates of your two vaccinations is very useful for this.

maddyone

Casdon

...still people complain about waiting lists.....

The complainters annoy me more than anyone else. It’s as if they don’t realise there’s been a pandemic.

Depends on their ailments if it's an ingrowing toenail or life saving cancer surgery

Casdon
It wasn’t so much that the virus was/is highly infectious, but that the staff were not obeying the rules. Not my words: jeramy hunt.

Casdon

...still people complain about waiting lists.....

The complainters annoy me more than anyone else. It’s as if they don’t realise there’s been a pandemic.

This was during the second wave, in December/January.

There would most definitely be a rise in cases but with vaccinations and better treatment options it would not be so serious and not too long before herd immunity was reached.

I should think there are NHS staff still recovering from the two waves last year. Why put pressure unnecessarily so on them yet again.

My elderly mother went into hospital after a fall. She tested negative, but picked up Covid in hospital, came home with it but we didn’t know as we were told two tests were negative, then passed it to my husband and I as we were in a support bubble with her, and I ended up in hospital very ill with Covid. Mum and husband were fine, only ill for one day each.

The fact that there were a lot of hospital acquired infections, particularly in the first wave, indicates just how contagious the virus is, obviously even more so now with the variants. Warm, unventilated, multi beds wards with staff who move between patients, don’t have adequate PPE or training, and sick patients who share toilets, are often confused and don’t understand infection control measures is the perfect breeding ground.

Much more is understood now about how this virus is transmitted, staff are better prepared and protected, and the hospital infection rate has dropped considerably, but the fact remains that there is probably no more perfect environment for the virus that a hospital, and until everybody is vaccinated and assuming no new dangerous variants, that will continue - and still people complain about waiting lists.

MerylStreep

Between 20-40% of people who presented at hospital COVID free, died in hospital from covid. Quote from jeramy hunt.

Yep!

It would be interesting to see the figures on hospital acquired Covid-19. BiL went into to hospital testing negative, after two weeks he tested positive.

PippaZ

Esspee

Sorry Pippa I can’t see why failure of track and trace has any relevance here.
I am suggesting that all restrictions should be lifted and we all take responsibility for our own protection.

If Test and Trace isn't working how can you risk opening everything up?

When all the strands are working we will be able to move forward and then we can take responsibility.

Unfortunately, just saying we have personal responsibility doesn't mean much without the conditions in which to carry out that responsibility. I would be worried about the sort of "responsibility" someone would take, or expect of others, if they don't recognise that.

The problem with Track and Trace is, not all will use it, one of my family members for a start. Count in those who won’t isolate when coming back from red/amber countries, won’t social distance, hand wash or wear a mask, and we get a lot of community spread, it only takes one.

Between 20-40% of people who presented at hospital COVID free, died in hospital from covid. Quote from jeramy hunt.

Corkie91

We cannot life in lockdown forever

Quite!

So why do you think we have a vaccine?