Close the schools!

That would mean about 20 million people would not leave their homes for at least the next year.

What good would vaccinating youngish people do?

The lockdown started too late and was finished too early.

The "r" number is crucial. This is the average number of people infected by someone with the virus.

It was explained to us all in March. An "r" number above one means that the virus will spread.

It should have been obvious that after the lockdown, any relaxation of the rules would lead to an increase in rhe "r" value,

It should therefore have been obvious that -

1 There should not have been any relaxation in the rules until the "r" number was no more than 0.5

2 The relaxation in the rules should have been gradual - one step at a time - not schools, shops, pubs, restaurants, shops, and gyms all opening at once.

Anyone with an ounce of nous could have seen that, but not this utterly useless Vote Leave government.

I work in a large secondary school. We keep the students in bubbles and send whole year groups home when there are confirmed positive cases.
However, 75% of our students are bussed in, in mixed year groups!
Many also have siblings in other year groups.
Make of this what you will.
Ps. The adults have to wear masks on campus. Students do not. Social distancing is rarely observed.

We have secondary school aged grandchbildren living with us and DH is CEV. We try not to worry too much but it is difficult. I desperately hope the schools close and hope that does not seem too selfish. We felt so safe during the first lockdown when they learnt remotely though it was difficult for us with our lack of technological knowledge.

Closing schools damages children. We cannot continue to sacrifice our children to add a few more years to the lives of the old.

Shizam

Lockdowns don’t seem to work, though. We are in a worse state than before. Economy, NHS etc struggling. I wonder if opposite strategy might be better. Vaccinate all the youngish people first, get them back into full work, education. Olders stay at home til they can vaccinate us. Economy kickstarted, young people educated. Just a thought!

Interesting thought.

GrannyRose15

Closing schools damages children. We cannot continue to sacrifice our children to add a few more years to the lives of the old.

But that's not how it's working out.

Children in many parts of the country have already had disrupted education. Parents are having to change plans at short notice. Now is the time for damage limitation.

IMO exam classes should be prioritised. I would have them in school on a rota system, with well-planned remote learning for the times when they're not in school.

Other year groups would need to stay at home where possible, with the school possibly open for those without internet/computer facilities at home and the children of key workers. They would do the same work as other pupils.

Teachers are generally more skilled at delivering remote learning now than they were in March, when they were thrown in the deep end.

Schools aren't a childminding service. However, I recognise there would be problems for some families. The issue is that there are problems NOW and families would be in a better position to sort out domestic arrangements if they could plan, rather than being given just a few hours' notice.

The government needs to step in with providing the promised laptops to those without them and financial assistance for parents who genuinely can't work because they have childcare responsibilities. It also needs to think carefully how it spends the money earmarked for "catch up". Personally, I'd spend it on pastoral mentoring for those who aren't engaging and leave the educational planning to the teachers, who know their pupils best.

It's a flawed argument to have secondary schools carrying on as normal because this age group have been responsible for spreading the virus more than others, with the knock-on effect on the economy.

Stamp on the source of infection and the economy can get back to some kind of normality sooner.

It will be weeks before the elderly and most vulnerable can be vaccinated. We need action from the first week of January - not in three or four months.

PS. No vaccine has been trialled on under-16s. It would be a massive waste of money to vaccinate those least likely to suffer severe symptoms.

Bbbface I can understand you as my dd is single parent,2 boys 14 yrs 6 yrs.

She has lost her post she had at the hospital due to not having childminder to take to school (she starts at 8am)

They have now offered her another post 9-4 she is desperate to stay in work she loves her job.

But still no childminders, plus 6yr old is having a terrible time being in and out of school. He has been sent home twice.
The elder one, yes he can more or less look after himself.

Whilst many want schools to close, who is going to look after the children whilst people have! to go to work or loose their job ,

I am a gran/not retired/still working.

I've no idea what the solution is, as one solution doesn't suit all. Its a nightmare all round.

I so agree with you Gagajo. How is it that we cannot visit a family of six, yet it is perfectly fine for hundreds of children to mix? There is no logical explanation. Education should be a life-long learning experience. Would it be so terrible if curriculum studies were set back a year? The Open University is proof that education can be successfully carried out on-line, and for secondary pupils a good route into the discipline of personal study. Most EU countries don’t start formal schooling for primary pupils until they are six and I cannot understand the rush GB imposes to start educating children almost as soon as they are weaned. Whilst key workers need childcare facilities, the smaller numbers of children going into these settings put a limit on possible infections.

Couldn't agree more Coco51. I left school with ONE O Level and through evening classes and part time study while working, worked my way up to a Masters.

I am a teacher now and MANY of my international students are older than their year group. I currently have an 18 year old just beginning the equivalent of A Levels. Last year I had a 20 year old doing the same. A few years ago, I had 18 year olds doing GCSEs. The end result is what is important, not WHEN you do it.

GrannyRose15

Closing schools damages children. We cannot continue to sacrifice our children to add a few more years to the lives of the old.

But you're happy to sacrifice teachers in order to get this? There was a teacher retention crisis in the UK long before Covid appeared, due to the terrible working conditions they have to endure. After this debacle, I predict that teaching will be an even more undesireable career choice.

And then of course, parents will be even MORE unhappy with the state of British education.

bikergran has your daughter contacted her local authority Family Information Service?
They can help with details of all the childminders in her area.

V3ra she did have a childminder, but then gs started to become hard work,the childminder could not cope and refused to have him.

Hence she lost her post at the hospital. Also with Covid the childminder could not have him anyway.

Dd is really struggling with gs and now has been offered help.He may have some form of ADHD or something.

The school have exluded him twice in the last month and would not let him go back on the last day. I will pass on your information, thanks.

bikergran some children are really struggling this year. I had one here who couldn't cope during the summer and mum removed him from my care. Going back to school hasn't proved any better.

Bikergran: Others may know more but perhaps your grandson needs to be assessed by the CAMS (?) team. A friend’s grandson has been assessed recently.

What rhetoric! Teachers are not being ‘ sacrificed ‘ any more than many other workers and a lot less than some.

And I only retired from teaching quite recently so certainly don’t have a ‘down’ on the profession

Why are teachers not being vaccinated? DD teaches seriously deprived primary ages with social emotional needs in a school beset with constant bubble closures . She keeps being told to maintain 2 m distance. If she did she could not do her job. No protection and no vaccination. She has health issues if her own and lives alone. How long before she gets the virus?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nanna58

What rhetoric! Teachers are not being ‘ sacrificed ‘ any more than many other workers and a lot less than some.

Not true Nanna58. There was a report which calculated that teachers are at greater risk than nearly everybody except frontline healthcare workers.

The report relied on data from before the summer holidays, when schools only had a small percentage of pupils in the building. Since then, the situation has become worse.

The issue is that teachers don't have PPE (unlike healthcare workers). They are being forced to be in cramped, poorly ventilated working conditions for many hours every day (unlike almost everybody else).

The main reason that teachers (and, more importantly, teaching assistants) can't be vaccinated as a priority is that there are quite simply not enough doses. There are almost a million adults working on the frontline in schools. Currently, the UK doesn't have a million doses going spare. Maybe the situation will change if/when the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine is given the green light, but that would still displace nearly a million people who are more likely to suffer serious symptoms from the queue.

The only solution is to shield teachers from direct contact with pupils until a vaccine can become available.

Kamiso yes he started to have problems in around February
(dd called into school etc) had the school nurse who was supposed to refer him(but she didn't) she has now left, kept waiting and waiting, then Covid arrived put everything back.

Sen teacher is occupied with another child so a waiting game.

He has now got an appointment with Pediatrician in January.

I don't think that we should shut the schools but I do think that parents should be able to make a judgement decision about home tutoring or sending children to school without fines or having to de- register & potentially losing their places.

I also believe that it would make sense to perhaps halve the classes and have children in alternate weeks offering much more space in classes. Teachers could teach then children could undertake work on their 'home week's (obviously provision would need to be made for vulnerable children or those of essential workers).

So do you think there should be a partial closure of schools?

That's what the teacher unions have been suggesting for months.

BTW Who do you think should be responsible for setting the "home week" work plus teaching pupils face to face?