Support bubbles and childcare bubbles

Iam thank you for your very kind words. My friend lives in Gtr Manchester which is how she’s in Tier Three and I’m in Tier One. Of course, we’re all in lockdown now, so the rules are the same for us all, but I suspect we might go back to using the tier system when lockdown finishes.
Atqui that’s how I thought it worked, one childcare bubble, and one support bubble, but I didn’t know they can’t mix, although it makes sense whilst we’re in lockdown, because we’re not supposed to be mixing socially at all. Prior to complete lockdown, we could visit my mother (support bubble/rule of six) and take our grandson when we were looking after him, under the rule of six. To be honest, whilst in Tier One, we could forget the support bubble as the rule of six was what counted, but now the support bubble with mum is important. It’ll prevent her from being isolated as she was during lockdown one.

Iam64

maddyone, if its any consolation (and I don't expect it is) we have been in tier 3 for a long time, as our R was the highest in the country for a while. We are Gtr Manchester so moved into tier 3, and are currently in total lockdown.
We haven't done our usual day each week childcare for our four young grandchildren since February. I'm classed as clinically vulnerable. I haven't hugged a loved one or close friend since mid March. I'm lucky in living with a husband I love and get on well with. Plus I have dogs, or at least I did have two dogs until June (rip lovely girl)
I share the frustration and irritation about the rule breakers. But, all we can do is stay within the rules ourselves, try and stay safe and feel fortunate if we're fortunate enough to be able to get out and go a walk

I’ve just uncovered this information

If you’re eligible, you can form one childcare bubble and one support bubble with different households.

You must not meet socially with your support bubble and childcare bubble at the same time. Childcare bubbles must be used exclusively for the purposes of childcare.
This puts a different slant on the situation. I was considering asking a single relative to “ bubble” with us and stay , but that won’t be possible during childcare

I know Atqui, I was on the phone to her and she’s an old and very dear friend who I love like a sister, but I was a bit miffed to hear that, and I suppose she’s intending to keep on doing this on one day every week. It’s hard when it’s a dear friend as well. And my mother told me that my cousin and her husband went into Wales to see cousin’s mother in law earlier this week, and there was I thinking Wales was closed to English visitors at the moment. They’re all in Tier Three and I’m sitting here in Tier One and trying to do only what’s allowed.
On Saturday my son and family visited before lockdown and under the rule of six he was allowed. He was very down about the coming lockdown and it was hard to see him looking so sad and low. He lives about 40/45 minutes from us, so we’ll only see him and our grandson on FaceTime now for the next month. They can’t even stand on the pavement outside and speak to us for a few minutes as we stand at the doorstep as we’re not allowed to travel now. Meanwhile, in Tier Three land, many (and I know it’s not everyone) people just carry on and do what they want to.

That’s dreadful Maddyone . We’ve been told that we might have a ‘normal’ Christmas if everyone follows the rules, but as usual some people will spoil it for the rest of us.

Yes, I looked last night and it seemed clear to me that you can be in a support bubble/linked households, and also in a childcare bubble to provide childcare for children up to the age of 13, but only to allow the parents/carers to work. Well I spoke to someone I know only this morning, who unlike me lives in a Tier Three area, who is picking up grandchildren from school today, taking the children home to feed them and then having fireworks in the garden before returning them home! Am I missing something here? We are not going to provide childcare for our three year old grandson because his parents say it’s not safe, despite the fact that we live in a Tier One area, but children can be picked up from school and fed and entertained, whilst all the time both of the parents are at home! The same lady told me that in order to see her friends when households were not allowed to mix, Tier Three remember, she goes round the back and in through the back door because no one can see her go in. She lives in Tier Three!!!
I’m feeling miffed! I love my grandchildren too! And I’m in Tier One!

Exd categorically, a person can create a bubble with another household if they live alone (support bubble) AND also be in a childcare bubble to provide childcare. It is allowed under the rules. See my post above

I think you have to forget the word 'bubble', that is so yesterday! Linked households are now the only way forward. You can be in one for support and one for childcare, but you can't change, and if you were in a 'bubble' up until 4th November, you can't form a different 'linked household'

Some time ago I asked the same question and was firmly told (on here) that you can only have ONE bubble. A lot of people seem to have given themselves several bubbles - a support bubble, a walking bubble, a family bubble ..... etc.
I truly think its only one bubble.
Consider what's best to protect yourself? Bending the rules to suit ourselves, or doing what we're advised and staying safe? Thats what it boils down to in the end.

From official govt. Guidance

. Childcare and children’s activities:
There are several ways that parents and carers can continue to access childcare during the national lockdown:

*Parents are able to form a childcare bubble with one other household for the purposes of informal childcare, where the child is 13 or under
*Some households will also be able to benefit from being in a support bubble, which allows single adult households to join another household

The word "also" is key!!

Thanks for your help everyone.
B9 The last bit seems a bit harsh.Someone may have fallen out with their support group, and as long as they quarantined before joining another I can’t see the problem- but who am I to fathom the inconsistent laws- e.g. you can go for a walk with one person but you can’t play golf with one person. I digress!!

Bubbles are not mentioned in the new laws, only linked households. There are two types, linked households for the purposes of childcare (and this is only to enable the parents to work) and linked households where one of the households is a single person, who may be living with children under 13.

Linked households may not link with others, except where the purpose of the second linking is for childcare purposes, see above.

If you have been in a linked household with any other household since 14th September, you cannot change that household, and if you cease to be a linked household, you cannot then join with another one.

Atqui I’ve looked at various sources and I think I understand why it doesn’t say clearly that you can be in a bubble of both types. I think it’s partly because a support bubble is absolutely nothing to do with childcare. Being in a support bubble means you are in effect one household and as one household if there are children then anyone in the bubble can look after the children whenever they want. A childcare bubble is nothing at all to do with a support bubble and so has its own rules ( children under 14, can only be in one bubble with one other household etc). So often with the law, if it doesn’t say we can’t do something, then we can do it iyswim.

I love Spotlight Atqui but they do make me laugh sometimes. The other night the weatherman was looking forward to Thursday Nov 5th and said "if you're wanting to know about the weather for your bonfire PARTIES!" I know he probably meant as a single family in your garden, but he made it sound as though we could gather together and eat and drink!

Agree with Susie after having read several reliable sources. A support bubble is not the same as a childcare bubble, two separate entities.

Atqui I’m absolutely certain you can be in a support bubble and a different childcare bubble. I’ll try and find a reputable source.

Maddyone I looked at the government website and couldnt find the information. Someone asked a representative from the BMA on Spotlight ( local tv) and she said the answer was no. Perhaps the rules have been clarified since I looked so thank you.

Yes, we are creatures of habit, and it is difficult to change what we do and how we think. A year ago I used to collect my GC from school in London and half the mothers had spent the day together at Westfield or in local trendy cafes. I would certainly not be doing collections there today.
I'm now doing the odd pick up in Devon where the mothers go off and walk a dog or jog along a beach. Should I feel differently? Yes I think I do.
Thus is causing me a lot of soul searching!!

The parents can no longer meet up in cafés or pubs susiewoozie so that will make a huge difference. Neither can they visit shopping malls when the kids are at school.

What you say * Ellianne* is true of course and part of the decision making process of risk management. But I do also think that decision making is inevitably so often made through the prism of what you want to do rather than that what you need to do. Not a criticism just an obvious observation. We’re all good at self justification aren’t we?

Luckygirl

In some ways I think it might be safer this time to do school pick-ups as the pupils and their parents will not be out and about meeting people as before.

Good point. At our GCs' school anyone picking up now has to wear a mask.

Luckygirl

In some ways I think it might be safer this time to do school pick-ups as the pupils and their parents will not be out and about meeting people as before.

Oh dear - I wish I believed this.

It is also quite difficult to withdraw the (not absolutely necessary) support which has previously been relied upon and to which someone might have become accustomed. I'm talking in terms of mental health here. What if that person panicks, can't cope when their usual help is taken away? Say a young mum alone whose partner works long hours or shifts? There has to be a bit of consideration, but that is of course how things start to go wrong and people abuse it.

Well I think you have a very good point there suzie.