Explain how lockdowns eradicate the virus?

I think the home sanitising is a sort of human reaction to something they're afraid of; a way of controlling something that seems to be out of control. I do that by taking vitamins and continuing with theneverendingdiet. I'm pretty sure that the vitamins do work but, even so there is something reassuring about taking them.

I have wondered about the effectiveness of handsanitisers for just that reason, but just decided it was a point not worth arguing at shop entrances, so I have taken the stuff. However as constant washing and using sanitisers makes the skin on my hands dry and uncomfortable, I always wear gloves out and the sanitiser goes on those.

I have not been using sanitisers to wipe any surface I cook or eat from, Both items contain all kinds of toxic chemicals that I do not want in my food.

I actually, do not understand all this obsession with sanitising in one's home. If you come into your home and thoroughly wash your hands. In a small household, how is the infection going to get on these surfaces when you and partner are the only people in the house and no one else has access?

Yes, if people are going out to work or children and school or external childcare are involved, that is different. But DH and I come in the house, take our coats off, wash our hands, where will the infection come from?

geera

There are a couple of things which I totally don't understand.

- This is a VIRUS, so what use are antibacterial wipes and hand sanitisers?
- Testing is all very well, but 'negative' today does not necessarily mean 'negative' tomorrow.

I completely agree that we are all responsible for our own health, and should do whatever is necessary to slow this down for the benefit of everyone.

If there is enough ethanol(?) in the hand sanitiser it destroys the outer covering of the virus and deactivates it before it can infect someone.

I am not laying the blame anywhere but it would seem that this second wave has been caused by movement around the country. My area had low instances of Covid until the University opened its doors. Now cases are rising alarmingly. I cannot understand why students were asked to come back only to be given online learning from their rooms. They would have been better staying in their own areas at home until we had this virus under control or a vaccine could be found.
Apart from spreading the virus it has led to many unhappy young people who feel isolated.

There are a couple of things which I totally don't understand.

- This is a VIRUS, so what use are antibacterial wipes and hand sanitisers?
- Testing is all very well, but 'negative' today does not necessarily mean 'negative' tomorrow.

I completely agree that we are all responsible for our own health, and should do whatever is necessary to slow this down for the benefit of everyone.

We have stuck to the rules as well. DS and family will not be coming to visit us at half term because they live in a tier 2 area.

However, it is very difficult to expect ordinary people to obey the rules when politicians of all parties think they are above the law and constantly break the rules egregiously. I am still waiting to hear that that SNP MP has resigned - and pigs might fly.

Wether Covid 19 is related to Influenza or the Common Cold it spreads in the same way, in the air, not by direct contact.
It is so widespread in the UK that if the virus itself does not weaken, it will only stop if an effective Vaccine is found or immunity is achieved.

Many diseases are spread by direct contact, even Ebola or Cholera can be stopped, Corona virus is going to be much harder

Teacheranne You have every right to feel grumpy. I agree with you, by the way.

I can't help feeling that the media is keeping very quiet about the current main sources of infection, which are 20-25 year olds, followed very closely by 10-19 year olds, in other words secondary school pupils. The government made such a big deal about getting all pupils back into school that it can't now admit that education is the setting where most transmission is now taking place.

"How many times on Gransnet"

I am being intentially controversial but how many himself on Gransnet have people written that they have "fudged" the rules a little and other people have replied that it was acceptable? If the whole population were bending the rules occasionally to suit their needs then is it any wonder we are experiencing the increase in infections now?

I don't have any ideas for the government on how to deal with the current situation but I personally have done everything asked of me yet feel I am being punished for other people not following the guidelines.

I am sure I will get criticised for this post but living in Greater Manchester and facing even more restrictions is making me feel rather grumpy today.

PS. I agree with the rest of your post Sparkling.

What do you mean by "herding" Sparkling?

If you mean so-called herd immunity, that's not guaranteed to work either, for a number of reasons.

Herd immunity without vaccination has never stopped an infectious disease. There is no guarantee that a person who has been infected with Covid-19 will remain immune for life.

As herd immunity is a theory, it's not agreed how many people would need to be immune, but it could be between 70-90%. That would mean that many vulnerable people would need to be infected and many would inevitably die or have their lives affected.

The only way forward is to reduce transmission by lifestyle changes such as social distancing and mask wearing.

Even testing and tracing can't work if the number of cases is out of control and people won't comply because they need to work and/or don't have the support to self-isolate.

Evidence masks reduce transmission of Covid-19:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30352-0/fulltext

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

fullfact.org/health/evidence-shows-masks-do-offer-protection-covid-19/

examine.com/topics/coronavirus-masks/

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

It is not to stop the virus, there are only Three ways to do that Herding, vaccination but if everyone kept to the rules and it wasn’t passed on that would eradicate it, but we have to live and work and everyone that breaks rules consider themselves somehow above them. I would fine everyone heavily who broke rules, shut down businesses that don’t comply whilst others do. Make the wearing of good masks with filters mandatory outside, even in parks. Don’t touch anything in shops you don’t buy, I’m fed up of seeing people rifling through foodstuffs, selfish lot.

The simple answer, is it won't, polnan.

Maybe if we all wear the sort of mask shown by Dr Colin Barron.
youtu.be/4Pzh9_AKwNU

After showing the mask, he goes on to say, why jokes aside, they just don't work, but that there are severe dangers that result from wearing them! Listen to what he has to say, he is a doctor.
Listen to Dr Mike Yeadon the former CSO and VP, Allergy and Respiratory Research Head with Pfizer Global R&D and co-Founder of Ziarco Pharma Ltd. These people are not lying...

youtu.be/7mgMmDfJn00

Hetty There is a connection. For people to do as the government asks, they must have confidence that the government knows what it is doing has carefully thought things through and whatever is being asked will be effective. Not only that but that government members will themselves obey all the rules.

When we see, as we have seen, a government that is totally shambolic and keeps making enormous claims for testing and tracing, finding vaccines etc etc, which are quickly shown to be ridiculously overstated. When we see government ministers, mps and their advisors ignoring the rules as if they did not apply to them, then we cannot be surprised if some members of the public treat the rules with the same cavalier disregard as the government does.

The remarkable thing is how many people, after being treated with such disrespect by the government, still carefully follow the rules.

Personally, I think the government efforts have been a shambles, so yes, in part, I blame them - for not acting quickly enough, dithering and taking half measures.

Still, I really disagree with Franbern's 'nothing to do with selfishness'. People are, generally, very selfish. They'll make up all kinds of flimsy excuses to bend or ignore the rules - especially in private.

They seem to think that, if they slap on a mask at the supermarket, they're doing their duty!

Well said, Marydoll. Maybe if we were shown a better example by MPs and their relatives, then more might have been less inclined to behave like idiots!!

I’m afraid it’s much the same everywhere. Unlike some people I will not blame the government totally, because people who are breaking the rules are the ones to blame. I’ve just spoken to my son who took his son to a theme park way back in the summer, as a birthday treat. Apparently the theme parks are saying they’ve put in Covid safety precautions including social distancing in queues. Did the people comply? Of course not, and so my son says he won’t go again. He was disgusted by the lack of observance of the guidelines in the park. I’ve been annoyed by the lack of compliance all the way through. YES, you can blame the people, it’s the people who are not complying. And if anyone thinks a different government would have this under control, they’re in cloud cuckoo land I’m afraid.

How - just how - do we get this better track and trace system? Clearly it is key to getting some sort of control, but we are all having to sit here watching this cobbled-together jobs-for-the-boys system letting us all down. And what can we do about that?.........absolutely nothing.

Just as we could do nothing about the country not being closed down at the very start of the virus appearing in Europe, which would have been the right thing to do. We are trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.

16 million people on the track and trace app, and virtually no "hits"; a message that keeps popping up by mistake telling you you have been in contact with Covid followed by a message from the gov saying that is a mistake.......WTF? - as they say.

I think the reason people are ignoring so many of the rules is that they can see that they have been cobbled together; and have listened to the scientific advice and watched the government ignore it.

And we have gone from levels to tiers, from carrots to sticks - no wonder people are muddled; and no wonder people are just not getting tested to try and avoid fines if they break lockdown. We have gone from national rules to regional rules, following the government previously refusing to engage with local services - and now they are surprised that they are facing a revolt!

There have been turning points: we were all in this together till it became clear that influential people were living by different rules to the rest of us.

A difficult situation requiring nuanced but clear thinking has been turned into a fiasco - and lives are at stake.

Franbern excellent post, completely agree.

I totally agree with you Franbern

I am finding it very sad that some people(an on these threads) are so keen to blame other people for the increasing numbers being reported with this virus.

It horrifically reminds me of the 'blame the victim' ideology that was so around with regards to rape victims, etc,

Everyone knew and prophecied the increase as autumn approached. No group or age were to blame, it was inevitable. However, the time for preparation seemed to have been missed.

The Lockdown was put in place originally to protect our very-underfunded NHS from being overwhelmed. Never in anyones wildest imaginations was it thought that the virus would politely pack up and go away completely.

We had those few weeks in the summer, giving a small chance for the economy to pick up - but we did know the second wave would hit as the days drew in and colkder weather drove people inside.

No single group or age group is to blame for this. We should stop looking for anyone to blame, nothing to do with selfishness or anything -just the way this virus works. It will still be there after any regional lockdowns unlock.

Better treatment of those who become very ill with this, and better, much better track and trace system , a quick turnover, accurate testing system is the way to go to get on top of this virus. Not blaming other people.

Wow! Lots of voices of reason here.

As in a classroom, 80% compliance usually does the trick. A teacher can usually deal with the 20% by a stern look or coming down more heavily if that doesn't work. The important thing is that there are consequences and the teacher is seen to be fair.

I feel "Cummingsgate" was a turning point. People had reluctantly been putting up with hardships, but they then saw that people weren't being treated fairly. They felt justified in pushing the boundaries and they got away with it, so they continued. The crony contracts added to the impression of unfairness and all sorts of hoax theories were allowed to flourish.

I honestly feel the government has lost control and I don't know how it's going to restore order without a lot of tears.

I can't believe that there is anyone out there who has not got this yet!