Rebelling

I could have sobbed my heart out when I read the OP - we had two terminally ill relatives that, due to the virus, we were unable to visit. One has now died and I will always have to live with the fact that I couldn't see her during her final weeks.

To visit our other terminally ill relative is as impossible as the first and we cannot even support his family because we add up to more than six if we want to be together.

Obviously I would never wish the virus on anyone and apparently the OP has survived it but surely that should make the OP more determined to protect others?

How selfish can people be?

So are people who have old phones and unable to download the track and trace app selfish and uncaring? Should they be made to buy new phones in order to buy into this surveillance technology or are they exempt from this appaling judgemental criticism?

She's not being asked to "buy a new 'phone" - she has a clever plan to use "a very old PAYG phone". Read what she says - and weep !

MissChateline the OP stated they would deliberately give their contact number, to anyone who requests it for T&T, of an old PAYG phone that they wouldn’t switch on and is not traceable to them. Thus avoiding any contact tracing should they have been in contact with a Covid carrier.
Deliberately providing unusable information. The OP may well have a smart phone.

Life has become a tedious one with the pandemic.
I think the government is doing a thankless task. They may get it wrong at times, but who knows how to get it right.? Not the time for stubborn people to ignore the country's laws, as lives and livelihoods are at risk.

No one is enjoying this but at least we should comply as much as possible. Yes, the old , and the vulnerable may and will die but the how is important.

Think of the whole community OP.

The OP sees herself as a rebel?

Not the word I’d use. But then my post would be deleted if I posted mine.

Boris's stick and Nicola's carrot.

The other significant difference in tone, which has been emerging over recent days, is whether to use the carrot or the stick.
Those who see others breaking the rules, and who blame young people for spreading virus, are likely to want to see a punitive response. The British see themselves as having a sense of fair play: if they're to give up their liberties, they really resent those who fail to play by those rules. That approach was most evident from the prime minister today and by others in recent days.
There's a subtle contrast with the message from Holyrood, which takes a softer tone. The toughest talk from Nicola Sturgeon on Tuesday was about enforcing 10pm closure and distancing rules in bars and restaurants. They have licences and face health inspectors, so the stick can be more easily applied.
^But for the wider public, the Holyrood carrot is held out as a sense of common endeavour: we owe it to each other, particularly the vulnerable: let's look after one another.
That emphasises solidarity with the majority who obey the rules, rather than highlighting resentment at the minority who do not. We'll find out this winter which approach works better.^

Douglas Fraser, BBC news business/economy editor, Scotland
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-54257716 Covid in Scotland: Boris's stick and Nicola's carrot

That was to illustrate differences in leadership style.

I posted on the wrong thread, but my comment was actually quite relevant. If Boris were more inspiring and seemed genuinely to care more about the people under his leadership, perhaps the OP would have been keener to co-operate instead of undermining the attempt to trace contacts of this virus?

Wonder whether these “rebels” (ostriches) will be equally gung-ho in refusing treatment should they fall seriously ill?

Increasing evidence that people can (indeed are already) contract(ing) Covid more than once.
Prof. of Virology on Simon MCCoy on Monday also said that those who had minor symptoms, the so-called “mild” cases, develop weaker antibodies than those taken seriously ill, with those requiring intubation developing the strongest. She said it is likely that any vaccine would have to be administered annually.

I’m currently isolating due to contact with someone who has tested positive. My family were elsewhere at the time, so they are staying away and I am alone for 14 days. Not lonely though due to technology and good local friends. Several small celebrations have been cancelled.
I am happy to be in this position rather than risk being a carrier and causing someone illness or heavens above death!
To me it’s not an option anything else is pure selfishness.

J52

I’m currently isolating due to contact with someone who has tested positive. My family were elsewhere at the time, so they are staying away and I am alone for 14 days. Not lonely though due to technology and good local friends. Several small celebrations have been cancelled.
I am happy to be in this position rather than risk being a carrier and causing someone illness or heavens above death!
To me it’s not an option anything else is pure selfishness.

Hope you come through safely J52. Thank you for thinking of others.

Hebdenali, with their selfish, irresponsible attitude, said they would not isolated. However, not much thought has been given to this declaration. This person would not even know they had been in contact with someone tested positive as they'd given no reliable contact number.

They also say will not leave myself open to huge fines when I go out for my daily exercise. What are they going to do when exercising that could result in a fine?

There seems to be no logic and common sense with this person.

Luckygirl

Indeed, the OP backpedalled rapidly in subsequent posts; but the whole tenor of the original premise is that we should not take notice of what is needed. I find that a dangerous and irresponsible stance.

By all means regard this government's handling of this crisis as inept in the extreme, but do not debunk the science, because that is where hope lies.

That’s what I thought, Luckygirl. The original post sounded ‘ rebellious’, but then the tone of subsequent posts changed, perhaps because of others’ reactions.
I really can’t understand the attitudes of people who are refusing to comply with directions. Okay, maybe masks don’t work, or you think there’s no chance of infection by meeting up with others, but surely basic humanity would dictate that you follow the rules to keep others safe?

Attention seeking

Perhaps the OP is bored. She knew she would get a lot of replies by such an outrageous post.
Poor love.

A former US politician who dismissed Covid-19 as a hoax in a series of Facebook posts has died after a battle against the virus.

Former Nashville councillor Tony Tenpenny, 57, died as a result of complications relating to Covid-19 over the weekend.

The Trump-supporting politician had shared posts on a now-deleted Facebook account that argued the virus was a hoax to attempt to stop Trump's re-election this November, as well as suggesting that mask wearers had been 'manipulated to live in fear' and were 'controlled by a socialist agenda'.

www.ladbible.com/news/news-former-us-politician-who-called-coronavirus-a-hoax-dies-of-covid-19-20200922

A salutary tale.

I won’t be downloading the trace app. either but as I haven’t been out of the house since March 4 and, medical emergencies aside, I have no plans on leaving the house.

I don’t think that the OP said that she wouldn’t isolate if she tested positive or if she was contacted by a tracer having been in contact with someone who had had a positive test. That is the law and fines will be issued. What I believe she said was that she wouldn’t be downloading the app because of privacy accuracy and security issues. This is a very different issue. I Don’t believe that it is the law yet that the app had to be downloaded so she is not flouting any rules. There will be many who either don’t have a mobile or the phone’s operating system is too old to download the app. Are they also to be judged as selfish etc?

I would and will do anything to stay safe and alive.
As annoying as it is.
I want everyone to be the same, i also want to hold my family at some point in the near future.
Self- isolating is a small price to pay to get back to some sort of normality.

trustgone4sure

I would and will do anything to stay safe and alive.
As annoying as it is.
I want everyone to be the same, i also want to hold my family at some point in the near future.
Self- isolating is a small price to pay to get back to some sort of normality.

Thank you. That's just how I feel.

I don’t think that the OP said that she wouldn’t isolate......if she was contacted by a tracer having been in contact with someone who had had a positive test.

That’s what she did say though, surely?

I will not endure weeks of incarceration should I happen to sit near an infected person on a train or in a shop.

Though of course she’s not going to be contacted by a tracer as she’s taking steps not to be traced!

That isn’t my understanding of the system. For example If my daughter or a friend tested positive they would have to provide my number to a contact tracer who would call me and instruct me to isolate. This would be a legal requirement and enforceable.
The test and trace app is very different, this works on two phones connecting via Bluetooth. If one of the phone owners has tested positive and records this on their phone this info is transmitted to my phone. This only works if the system works, is secure and the info it is transmitting is accurate. No info is passed to a tracer as it is a closed system between the 2 phones. So no phone call from a contact centre. It would I think be the responsibility of the receiver of the information to get a test and isolate.
Additionally the system can only work if testing and getting results is up to speed and readily available. Lunchtime interview on radio 4 someone said that without speedy testing the entire system is a failure. I’m not convinced that the testing ability is good enough yet for it to work properly.
I may be wrong about this and if I am I am happy to be corrected.
Just been reading about the German T&T app, very low download numbers and a high number of people deleting the app due to security concerns. Also people not registering On the app that they have tested positive. Apparently you have to do this yourself via a “button “.

Yes! Ir's just you!

I am amazed to find myself quoting Mr Johnson, but something he said last night struck me - “Your mild cough might be somebody else’s death knell.” A good reason to take no risks about spreading the virus.

Craftygranny
Have any of you seen any of these two videos, and what do you think?

Well I have now and what I think is
1. Although the interviews both claim to be with the same Dr Li-Meng Yan, they appear to be two different people. Even if she’d been more heavily made up for the Fox News interview, the voice is not the same.

2. Things are rather unpleasant right now in Hongkong for anyone who values freedom of speech and some people must be desperate to get out.

3. Fox News is a very right-wing, pro-Trump organisation. They would be only too happy to give a platform to anyone who would discredit the Chinese Government and Communist Party in any way they could.

4. Dr Yan says the WHO have rejected her claims and says there is no evidence for them. Are we to believe that the WHO virologists are either incompetent or corrupt?

That’s my two penn’orth.