There is alas no cure for stupidity

annifrance

Oh Please don't say that! Even in jest. Gun ownership is prolific in the States.

Don't forget the terrible history of Assassinations of Presidents of the USA. That is the last thing the world needs right now.

Trumpaty trump will never come up trumps in this part of the world that`s for sure.
The only thing is ,is when he comes out with this s..t you can`t help but laugh at his stupidness.

Sodapop, I wrote a long reply and decided no point in getting in a tizzy over your reply, so deleted it.
One thing I'm sure of, going by your remark that there are enough of us on here, the Scots can't rely on you for support, if anyone makes a racist post about us.
What an unnecessary fuss over the remark made by Brunette.
As my mother used to say Some people would cause a rammy in an empty room.

This

From The Guardian
A panel of experts put together by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the agency led by Dr Anthony Fauci, released treatment guidelines for Covid-19 on 21 April. The panel said that there was insufficient data to “recommend either for or against” hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine. However, the panel recommended against the use of hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin due to the risk of cardiac arrhythmia
Not a lot of point in attempting to cure the disease if the patient dies from the therapy, is there?.

red1 "Trumps poor mental health has been debated by leading shrinks for years". Are you sure? Where? This sounds very unprofessional of them. To analyse his public performance maybe, but to "debate" his "poor mental health" as though it is a given is terrible! I hope he has sued them. And I am no means a supporter of Trump in political terms.

"His promotion of anti malarial drugs( he had shares in the drug company)". Chloroquine is not the province of any particular drug company, it is marketed in different forms by several. Trump had a small, very remote interest in one and would give him negligible returns.

in-this-together.com/chloroquine-covid-19-vaccines-and-lives-lost-part-1/

"Chloroquine, in it’s various phosphate, sulfate and hydroxychloroquine forms, has emerged as potentially the best molecule for the possible preventative treatment of COVID 19 syndrome. With reasons for further research emerging as early as February 4th, it took the World Health Organisation (WHO) seven weeks to announce global SOLIDARITY trials. The WHO said trials won’t be double blind studies because of the need to balance scientific rigour against speed. This is supposedly a global emergency after all.

Odd then that claims of a lack of scientific double blind legitimacy has been the stick some have used to beat scientists, around the world, who have recognised the need for some urgency with chloroquine research. Releasing evidence more or less as soon as it was verified, their data on the possible efficacy of chloroquine has been gathering dust for nearly two months."

The west's biased view can be found in Wikipedia;
"Chloroquine was discovered in 1934 by Hans Andersag.[5][6] It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system.[7] It is available as a generic medication.[1] The wholesale cost in the developing world is about US$0.04.[8] In the United States, it costs about US$5.30 per dose.[1]............
Antiviral
Chloroquine has antiviral effects.[34] It increases late endosomal and lysosomal pH, resulting in impaired release of the virus from the endosome or lysosome – release of the virus requires a low pH. The virus is therefore unable to release its genetic material into the cell and replicate.[35][36]......
On 1 April 2020, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) issued guidance that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are only to be used in clinical trials or emergency use programs.[64]"
Obviously, in Europe, the Big Pharma, coupled with Gates and WHO (who made a U turn as described above) decided more money can be made from cv19 vaccine. So a previously labelled harmless drug had to be maligned.

I once asked why the NHS did not make its own drugs, having learned the agonising process it went through to obtain opiate based drugs for cancer patients a few years ago. I was told "We simply are not allowed to." I looked into a drug company in Cambridgeshire and was shocked.

If any of you think the people who get rich at the top of Big Pharma are benevolent, then I challenge you to work with them, closely. One very distinguished Professor of Medicine told me "They are more unethical, more immoral, more unscrupulous than any drug Dealer in illegal drugs". I had this repeated to me by another Consultant, so I guess it is fairly well known.

Oh Essex59

Yet more leftist drivel
Politics shouldn't be allowed on here
Trump2020

Wake up and smell the !

Sodapop my comment regarding the Scottish, Irish and Welsh being mocked, was in reply to your comment regarding "people thinking it is ok to collectively mock Americans, and that it would not happen unchallenged with any other group of people". Of course it doesn't make it acceptable, I was merely saying that other groups of people are mocked and it does go unchallenged.

My DD is in Madison, the capital of Wisconsin, where there is a protest today against the governor's stay at home order. It is Republicans - Trump supporters - who are rallying. It is being stirred up by a billionaire couple, but they want it to look like a responsible grassroots movement so they have asked people to leave their AK-47s at home.... Madison has had a fairly low death count so far, but it is expected to shoot up after the rally. They are telling people that they can still attend if they are feeling ill! That is the mentality of extreme Trump supporters.

One supporter said that it was a good thing that Obama wasn't the president, because he wasn't a billionaire and couldn't afford to hand out unemployment cheques. They honestly think that it is Trump's own money. How can you reason with people who are so dumb?

On the other hand, 80%of Americans apparently support the lockdown.

I was on Hydroxychloroquine for twenty years until I ended up in Coronary Care last year.
I had an undiagnosed heart condition and the consultant took me off it immediately, it could have caused a fatal heart attack.
How can medics be sure that it is safe for everyone, without checking heart health? Such a pity, it can't be used, but like all drugs, it can also cause side effects in some people, including blindness.

I have family and friends in the States. Most are unapologetically anti-Trump but one is his supporter. We find this very odd (and this person is not a red-neck southern state person but an up-State New Yorker).

The Trump machine must work exceedingly well, as the person in question (who is very intelligent) told us that Hillary Clinton is a murderer, child abuser, embezzler and other ridiculous unsavoury things, all believed by Mr T's supporters. Trump has a wonderful publicity department!

By the way, did you know that amongst businesses deemed essential during the C-19 lockdown, are gun shops?!

The mind boggles.

Brunette10 oh dear, me, we do have to watch our words.

I read your post as meaning most Americans in the sense of the majority who voted for Trump and I heartily agree with you that they cannot possibly be all that bright.

MawB. That's if you agree with their data Maw. Please don't think I am arguing with you personally. I have other sources which not everyone will have. This drug has been used safely for years and years, it is very old. We are being fed a line regarding chloroquine. I appreciate that to someone who isn't involved in Science what I say is too strange and seems too unbelievable that you are being told something else from a place you are used to believing. But what is reported, especially at the moment, might have a different side. Newspapers are owned by a few rich people who only let them write what they want them to say. If this drug is suddenly so dangerous, how is it the WHO said it was safe and verimportant up until now? Why was it researching it for CV19 and suddenly went quiet for 2 months? Who got to the WHO? Who runs it? Who owns it these days? I'll tell you, Big Pharma and private investors, by far the biggest share of which is Bill and Melinda Gates. These want to make money out of this virus. Bill Gates had his eye on it when he had a corona virus pandemic symposium in October 2019! They don't want an old cheap drug already on the shelves to be efficacious, not even slightly!

Everyone, you really need to start thinking for yourselves. Don't accept as absolute Gospel everything you are told. Obviously do that which is right. I'd never start a revolution or hurt my country but I would save it from an attitude who tells us "some your loved ones are going to die" while us "loved ones" are part of his audience but he already has written us off. Previously in Europe only Hitler spoke to his country talking to them all, but speaking as if one group was already dead or removed despite their being there.

Similarly, I would preserve human rights and individual freedoms for my grandchildren. I am only trying to open your eyes and increase your awareness. Especially when you read the news. Strangely it's the reports of science papers that right now are not properly represented or the background correctly researched o you can evaluate it properly.

This drug had been used since it was discovered in 1934 where, I repeat from above: " It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the safest and most effective medicines needed in a health system.[7] It is available as a generic medication.[1] "
It has been used widely across the world for nearly 90 years, yet we are only just being told that you will die of a heart attack from it. Some people with heart trouble or diabetes may be unable to take it and are not prescribed it.

The Research going on and the data that is being used, or rather the Scientists quoted in the News are merely the ones who are shouting the loudest at this time. They are also the ones whom our Government, those, mainly men, we see on the podia, choose to listen to. I tried yesterday to explain how our lockdown and the "rules" about what we can buy even, came about. That was decided on a "paper" not even scientifically published and so not peer reviewed. That means, it was not discussed by leading scientists and subjected to the scientific rigour that all published papers are given. Indeed its author changed his own figures, which were the critical element in the Prime Minister's decision!

I can't go into it all right now and there are many of them with ready made answers to cover themselves, for example they can turn any statistics to work in their favour. Indeed this is probably an impossible task for me to try and explain and get across to people that what you are told is not by a long way always what it seems.

We all need to keep an open mind.

Please keep social distancing it's going to make a big difference. Try and keep in touch with loved ones and try and have things to do that keep you happy. But don't take every quotation from every scientist or Doctor as the Gospel and last word on anything! Go along with it, don't get upset. But in years to come all of this will probably be looked at very differently. Probably, depending on who gets very rich out of it and has the ability to make the rest stay living in the conditions they want them to be in. If we have to have a vaccine certificate and moreover if that is microchipped in us, then we have lost democracy, freedom, human rights, everything that makes us proud to be British. A chip would be used for more than updating if our vaccine was up to date, we would be unable to control it. Where we go, with whom, our temperature, etc. Did you see the program about Amazon? Do you know what Alexa keeps on record about what you say?

I know most people cannot take this in, but we are not being given the simple truth about a lot of things, especially at the moment, and hydroxychloroquine is one of them. Why? Because it is so imperative to some extremely rich and very powerful people to make us need a vaccine for this virus. We are ignoring S Korea's data, we are being lied to about anything , especially chloroquine, that might help, and we are being kept very "safe at home"(1) and occupied with banal things so we do not wonder what is happening or suddenly say ''But my uncle and his mates in the war all had chloroquine and they didn't have heart attacks."

1, I believe we do need to isolate according to the lines set out and stay at home, and keep the 2m apart rule. Not spreading this virus is our way of keeping it at bay and getting through, I really believe this.
Also, supposing you have access to it, I would say, do not try and take chloroquine! Obviously nobody should take anything medicinal of this kind unless a Medically qualified Doctor prescribes it. Also it could be because you are too frightened of it now and that would harm you.

On another brighter level, I would try and keep up your vitamins, especially C and D! It's sunny today and I'm lucky to have a garden so I shall go outside.

Marydoll. All drugs have side effects. It's always a matter of weighing up the advantages. But I assume you developed your heart condition while on the drug? Because if on it long-term, I understand, (It's not my field but I have access to medical information) the patient should receive regular heart and eye checks among other things.

Like all drugs, a patient must be medically examined for suitability before being given that drug and on log-term use should be given regular examinations to check their status has not changed.

There are other drugs with far greater side-effects and that need careful monitoring. If we were to not use every drug that produced side effects no matter in how small a number, we'd give up on drugs! I'm sure you've read the paper inside your tablets' box. It usually ends with "In (a really small)% heart failure" or something very scary.

Good grief! Sorry, but I don't have the time to read posts from Conspiracy Theories Inc and Trumpists properly.

A long post but worth reading,*Tillybelle*. Thanks.
I had heard about the financial power of the big pharma companies.
On a much smaller part of the topic, I think the stats on new cases and deaths etc are totally misleading. How can you compare those from countries with sophistcated or thorough methods of diagnosis with others who have very basic methods? Partly because they can't afford the scientific technology.

I loved Ade Edmondson's tweet:

And also mice? We could train mice to run down into the lungs with a small dustpan and brush? Magnets on a string? Petrol – a small controlled internal fire? These are also interesting to me and should be tested.

The man also suggested hydroxychloroquine in an earlier bulletin. This is the drug I was prescribed for my rare form of alopecia. Wonder if Mr Trump uses it to help him keep " his hair" on! The man is unreal.

Tillybelle, thanks for your post. My eyes were tested in the hospital eye clinic annually and I always read the leaflets.
However, no- one was aware I had a heart condition until I ended up with a severe, allergic reaction to another RA drug, of which I had only two doses.
It took nearly a year to diagnose exactly what was wrong with my heart after being in hospital, so a narrow escape for me.
Hydroxychloroquine certainly didn't cause the problem. According to my cardiologist, no-one with a heart condition should be on it.

I don't wish anyone dead, but it is time Trump was infected by a good dose of the virus, sufficient to scare him, just like Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings. If Trump was out of the picture for a few weeks, maybe things would move on more sensibly.

I just hope he doesn’t press that red button as a cure for all of us!!!

He now says he was being sarcastic. Sorry Donald you cannot afford to be sarcastic. Your followers don't understand sarcasm.

Dettol has issued a statement.
Never under any circumstances take their product internally.
Read the bottle Donald.

Donald is a nice Scots name, and I have several friends called Donald. but I am afraid it will be unpopular for a very long time.

I just watched the news conference again. No way was he being sarcastic. No way. Someone has suggested this may be a way of wriggling out of what he said.

Downing Street's response when asked about DT's remarks, was not to condemn them, but to state that 'It was not being looked at here'
You couldn't make it up

I've watched it. He was being serious. Now he's back tracking because his team have explained to him what the word poison means.