Lied to about PPE delivery from Turkey.

Maizie, Growstuff
Thank you for jumping on me with such lightning speed. My comments referred only to the graph as posted. A link would have been of much more use. And goodness, I have very little expectation on this thread but to relay every little detail is what some gransnetters do really really well. Ad Nauseam.

I've even posted a link directly to the ONS statistics on another thread, GrannyLaine. You could work it out yourself...

Here it is again

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

The Bruges Group are just bonkers.

They assert that we have spare capacity. Yes, we do now with those emergency Nightingale Hospitals but we didn't have any prior to the covid19 crisis. I give you three newspaper reports from December 2019. I've even included one from the Daily Mail..

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-winter-crisis-a-e-waiting-times-boris-johnson-matt-hancock-election-a9187756.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7788951/NHS-winter-crisis-Worst-delays-E-delays.html

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/02/nhs-winter-crisis-extra-beds-created-by-52-per-cent-of-uk-hospitals

Yes, we have spare capacity now, but we can't staff them because:

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/the-nhs-workforce-in-numbers#1-what-kinds-of-staff-make-up-the-nhs-workforce

In fact, reports I've seen say that staff are required to 'transfer' to a Nightingale with their patients. Leaving their own hospital short...

SNAP!

If you're concerned about the shortage of relevant information, try reading the full article GrannyLaine

www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

It's free to read.

@GrannyLaine

Why don't you read the article? It's free, it explains the calculations.

I believe the link has been posted but here it is again:

www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

Then, if you have more questions you could find Chris Giles on twitter and ask him diretly instead of expecting Gnet posters to relay every little detail.

So how do you explain the excess deaths GrannyLaine? It's a significant number. What is causing more people to die than would be expected, if not Covid-19?

It's actually quite a sophisticated analysis by the FT and isn't stretching anything except the expectation that the public might understand statistics.

Whitewave I'll give you marks for a partial (but true) answer.

Part of our business is supplying protective clothing and masks, the supply chain Globally is broken and not fit for purpose. There are manufacturers tripling prices, delivery dates are anything up to 12 weeks.

WWm2 your simplistic graph based on estimated figures by the FT. Bit short on relevant information I'd say - does the FT's figure relate to where CV19 is the primary cause of death, or an underlying factor or just that the death occurred in the time of coronavirus? Or none of those.
To call it analysis is really stretching it somewhat.

The delayed consignment (or half of it) has arrived.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52378491 RAF planes are on standby to collect the rest.

A. They are past their sell by date

So who or what is this Bruges Group?

Apparently, it's an independent (do they know what that means?) think tank, supported by (amongst others) Andrew Bridgen, Nigel Farage, Frank Field, Kate Hoey, Owen Paterson, John Redwood, Iain Duncan Smith, Marc Francois, Gisela Stuart, Lord Tebbit, Theresa Villiers.

Here's a quiz question:

What do all the above people have in common?

This is what the government is getting so wrong. They must tell the truth or they will be constantly found out as not being entirely correct in their information. The U.K. population is not stupid and will not accept what the government is saying but what they can find out from other reliable sources.

The source of my (non)-contrived anger is a government which has lied and manufactured figures to keep the public off its back.

We do indeed have some wonderful scientists in the UK. British science has such a good reputation that many foreign-born scientists choose to study and work here. Thank goodness they're still here, along with all the foreign-born NHS and care workers.

I think that is fantastic news. We have some wonderful scientists in this country.

It is a shame that we don’t have such a wonderful government.

Decision after decision has proved inadequate or downright wrong.

No wonder the British public is beginning to distrust the government.

The UK Government is funding vaccination research to the tune of £40 million. Human Trials begin on Thursday. This is good news. But let’s forget that because we’re supposed to be angry about not joining a scheme organised by a bloc of which we are not a part. ?‍♂️ Bruges Group

In case you missed it, the source of contrived outrage today is a procurement scheme administrated by an organisation of which our country is not a member (the EU) and which has yet to deliver any equipment. Bruges Group

The NHS has spare capacity. Moreover, new field hospitals have been built and pressed into action in short order. We have not seen terrible images of hospitals being overwhelmed like those from Italy and Spain. But all we see on TV is relentless negativity.
Bruges Group

No I shall never damn the NHS, you misunderstand.

There are insufficient clinicians because there were insufficient staff by at least 100000 going into this crises.

This government has Cut, cut, cut since 2010.

That together with the fact that clinicians from the EU were made to feel unwelcome and so fled back to their own country, who is no doubt benefiting from their expertise.

As an aside. It is noticeable that as a result of this wretched government simply not taking control and locking down as early as it should have done, that NHS Trusts around the areas like Cheltenham, Liverpool etc, have almost double the deaths from cv than other Trusts.

Dithering causes death.

This government MUST get its act together and plan, plan, plan, test,test,test its way out of lock down.

Osborne call for immediate austerity must be ignored.

'some quarters'

The point is WWM2 that there was capacity within existing units to accommodate those patients using the most highly skilled nurses to best advantage. The Nightingales were built to avoid the truly awful scenes we saw in Italy. Far better that they are NOT used to capacity.
The NHS seems to be damned if they do and damned if they don't from quarters

This is what is so worrying

The Telegraph.

“The crises is grime enough, not to be made worse by the distrust of people in the government who are supposed to be leading us through it”

So constructing a huge unit that has the capacity to accommodate thousands of patients but knowing that there are not sufficient clinicians to run it makes sense?

I think not.