Lied to about PPE delivery from Turkey.

Coggie if you get chance watch today's briefing with the Army General outlining their role in the current crisis. I found it inspirational: calm with no drama, just what they are trained for. And awesome in their ability yet utterly modest.

I only found out today. Poor thing. Hope the rest of the family are ok. She's been on the ward for weeks. Took her a while to pick it up.

Gaga, thats so sad.

The forces seem to have been doing a great job. Just quietly getting on with it. It was good to see their chief on the press briefing today.

I have a friend who is a nurse in Northumberland. She’s working on a no-ventilator, geriatric (as in, live or die with no ICU treatment) C19 ward. She had no PPE until last week. This week, she’s having symptoms and is off work sick.

No PPE until last week.

Coggie the forces have been moving things about ie logistics for the last four weeks at least, as well assisting building Nightingale Hospitals, driving ambulances and manning testing stations.

Maybe the forces could come in and help move stuff about?

I'm not being naïve. I do know that any old Joe Bloggs can't just produce equipment ant that there are protocols and procedures. I really am not that stupid.

The public has been fobbed off time and time again with meaningless promises. As I wrote before, hopefully the new procurement "tsar" can kick ass and be more focused and make the whole thing run more smoothly. Producing scrubs, gloves, visors and masks really is not high tech. It's not like ventilators.

No JenniferEccles the time to hold the government to account is while something needs doing, not when it's all over and a few people can mumble about "learning lessons" or whatever. This needs pro-active and focussed intervention from somebody who knows what (s)he is doing, not weasel words.

Blimey JE so are you saying that if the government is doing something that is clearly wrong for the country that we should stay Schtum. That is a bit risky!

We already know that some decisions that have been made has cost lives maybe thousands.

I for one would not stay quiet if I thought lives were at risk.

It is a blessing that the media and opposition do not agree with you.

As always it’s the easiest thing in the world to sit at home and criticise the government.

The time to form judgement on any country’s handling of the crisis is when the virus has finally been defeated.

growstuff I am far from defeatist, factories have retooled others are in the process of doing so, that is the easy part. It gets complicated thereafter, the prototypes have to then be approved whether the PPE is for the NHS, construction workers, asbestos removal etc.

It is naive to think that Joe Bloggs down the road can retool, manufacture PPE and begin distributing without the appropriate checking and approval and safety measures along the way.

I’m feeling I should switch off here too I’m sick of the arguments going back and forth over everything the government do. Let them get on with their jobs, I’m sure they’re spending more time fending off the criticism from the press and the public than actually doing anything useful!

Fair enough! I don't disbelieve you, but I doubt if your company provides more than a fraction of what the NHS needs. Quite honestly, I find you very defeatist. Of course there's a global shortage, so do you think the government should just hold up its hands and say "sorry, nothing we can do". Shame a few thousand people are dying, but that's how it is"?

Firstly, there needs to be honesty about the shortages, not denials.

Secondly, there has been enough time since the UK knew there was going to be a crisis to order factories to change production lines. We do have the manufacturing capacity to do that, if there were a will.

Hopefully, the new procurement "tsar" will be able to co-ordinate and kick a few backsides into action, without interference from the schoolkids currently running the show.

Sorry posted to soon, We have owned the Company for forty years.

growstuff Mr.GG and I own the company, we have two of our employees currently sat in the office trying to source PPE.
It is totally your choice whether or not to believe me, and I am not bothered one way or another. I shall not go into further detail as this is a public forum.

Actually, real scientists are far too busy doing research to give advice.

The people on scientific advisory panels, the chief nurse, etc. don't seem to be very much in touch with facts on the ground. And as for the Care Minister …

The people currently advising the government seem to be statisticians and modellers.

The government has consistently ignored all of them, in any case, and based decisions on economic and ideological reasoning, which is dangerous.

My biggest gripe is still being treated as clueless toddler with false promises and downright lies … and the sheer incompetence of people who are paid to do much better … and the blame games which have already started to cover people's backs.

je yes that’s true, but that is no excuse for our governments actions or inaction.

They were advised by SAGE.

They ignored it.

What you have to remember is that the scientists/ experts don’t all agree on the best course of action.

In fact I bet it would be a struggle to come up with ANY country where every expert was fully in agreement with their country’s handling of the crisis.

Some scientists in Sweden for example are not in favour of the policy there to keep bars and restaurants open.

Here is something I hadn’t appreciated.

Barry Gardner

“SAGE the government’s scientific advisory group.

Advise urgent lockdown on 26th February”

I thought the government was being guided by scientific advise?
Clearly only when it suits them.

Do/did you work for this company by any chance GrannyGravy?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/revealed-private-firm-running-uk-ppe-stockpile-was-sold-in-middle-of-pandemic

I was asking a question about ICU beds anyway - not PPE.

GrannyGravy With all due respect. that's anecdotal too. I'm looking for concrete facts and figures from validated sources.

Of course this lack of understanding of the life lead by these essential workers becomes crystal clear in the governments testing set up. Many would have to travel miles to get tested, that is assuming that they have a car to begin with.

If they suspect that they have the virus how are they ever going to get tested if they can’t use public transport?

I was shocked at the fact that no one in government has thought it desirable to compile the number of deaths in the care workers sector.

Let us hope these figures come to light over the coming week, as Starmer has put the government on notice that this question will be asked next week.

growstuff I posted facts upthread about the break down of the supply chain and manufacturers profiteering for PPE products that our company have supplied for Forty years.