Still impressed by BJ?

This link is to an article written by an expert in the field. It seems that when they heard about the 'herd immunity strategy' they thought it was a joke. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19

Razzy that is one of the most sensible posts I've read on GN about the coronavirus - absolutely agree.

No epidemiologist has

It’s not just ‘people’ who disagree with this strategy - it’s almost 250 scientists from a wide range of disciplines and the WHO have expressed concerns about the herd immunity approach. Virologists are not the only specialists who understand the spread of disease - although it’s actually no epidemiologist who has added their name to the letter.

The government has a strategy. It is outlined here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51874084

People may disagree with this strategy but it is not dithering. It is delaying with a purpose.

It has been criticised as, in all probability, any strategy would be in this situation. I heard on the radio that the scientists signing the letter were not virologists who might be better placed to take an informed view.

People should not 'trust the government to look after them' because that is not a realistic position under any administration in the current situation. People and organisations are making their own decisions. We may not know whose strategy works best until next year.

Basically the government want to do nothing apart from advising hand washing, not going on cruises and staying home if you are sick. The empty shelves in the shops show that most people don’t trust the government to look after them , it’s each person for themselves. So many events have cancelled without waiting for the government to stop dithering, which shows a lack of trust in the governments position.

To accept rapid 'herd immunity' is to accept that many of those at risk will die needlessly because the NHS is overwhelmed. There is no evidence that herd immunity will work either. There is much that is unknown about this virus, it's mutation rate, and whether those who have contracted Covid -19 will remain immune.
I am obtaining my information from reputable medical and scientific sources, and do not accept that the letter I quoted was politically motivated.

I think all the children and young adults are going to get the virus anyway. They may as well get on with it and develop 'herd immunity'. The only advice should be for all over 60s and people with health issues to self isolate. Everyone else should just get on with normal life and self isolate if unwell. Otherwise the economy is going to go completely down the pan and that's what looks like happening at the moment.

It’s an open letter which has been widely reported on numerous media outlets of all persuasions.

Just what is the alternative?

Everyone on lockdown?

Fine.

What about medical staff? Are they still to go to work?

Electricians? Utility staff? Plumbers?

Will we end up with power cuts?

No Internet? They already have issues in Italy with regard to that.

There is no easy answer to any of this.

None of us know

There are many experts who think the way we're handing this is the correct way

To quote either The Guardian or The Mail will get you your political persuasion's viewpoint

I agree Greeneyedgirl

Razzy ??Very good post.

I try and read as much as possible from reliable scientists and medical experts, without political spin, and it seems that very many do not agree with the government's action plan announced last Thursday.

From the Guardian Mar 14th.
Scientists urge government to enforce social distancing now.
245 UK people support an open letter including scientists from a wide range of departments.......also backed by 29 international signatories.^
Briefly the letter says In particular we are deeply preoccupied by the timeline of the proposed plan...............
Under unconstrained growth, this outbreak will affect millions of people in the next few weeks. This will most probably put the NHS at serious risk of not being able to cope with the flow of patients needing intensive care..........
Going for 'herd immunity' at this point does not seem a viable option.......

The full text of the letter can be accessed on the Guardian site.

It would help if the government published details of the advice they have received informing policy.

Reading the latest updates the government is planning for engineering companies to manufacture more ventilators and use hotels as holding hospitals.

merlotgran The problem is more acute if schools are closed and those of us grandparents over 70 are self-isolating. If we all keep ourselves to ourselves, we may stay clear of the virus for now but with what impact on jobs, businesses, the way we live and sustain ourselves, now and for the medium term? To some degree, we do need to keep calm and carry on.

If universities are closed, the problem of caring for children at home is less but getting students to work from home might be tricky, especially if their friends are all home too.

Definitely the right thing to do - I agree. They’ve got online learning in place so the DCs will work on that but my DD is a nursing student so she’s waiting to hear about her practicals and her placement - I imagine they’ll be waived but I don’t know.

SirChenjin Don't worry. Here in Italy university course are proceeding smoothly online from home. Probably exams will be moved forward to late July, even August. A pain but it's for the best all round.

Exactly merlot - it’s all part of social distancing. My elder 2 have just heard that their universities have been closed which is concerning as they’re both due to graduate this year - nothing as yet about how that will be managed but I’m sure the university will put contingency measures in place.

So much ranting and blame on the internet. It really doesn’t matter who the government is, they will follow advice from experts in pandemics. Will it be perfect? No. Will people die? Of course. Should the NHS have more money? Yes. Do people want to pay an extra 10% of their wages in tax for the NHS? No. Do people use the NHS unnecessarily? All the time.

Let’s all get a “wartime” mentality on this. We will have to pull together. Yes there will probably be food and health rationing. Let’s work together. Let’s accept no government has a cure, they can only work on advice of medical experts. Opinion will vary. But all the blame going on, like there is a fix to this! Like we should double beds available in case we have a once in a lifetime event like this.

Cunco, I can see both sides of the argument re closing schools but I think if children, who have not been infected, are kept out of school (even if looked after by grandparents) they are less likely to become infected as they won't be mixing with large numbers of children who could be spreading the virus.

Keeping isolated children amused will be tricky of course.

Cunco I’ll share any political views I wish to on here along as with everyone else and none of us need to change our records.

He is probably doing his best over Corona Virus but as regards Brexit he is still not to be trusted. As a confirmed Remainer I yet to be convinced of any benefits to Brexit. Looking till just before the ill conceived referendum BJ wrote 2 articles one pro Leave and the other pro Remain. He only opted for leave because he though it would gave him a better chance of being PM. He has avoided serious scrutiny from his own party, the opposition and the media.

He is simply untrustworthy and not fit as a leader in the best interests of the country.

merlotgran If the schools close, grandparents are likely to be more in the firing line, at least in my family. And what will we do with children who have possibly an extended period at home in semi- or total social isolation?

SirChenjin So, somebody catches a new virus in China and those who do not share you political opinions are to blame for the consequences. OK, believe that you are amongst the holy and the far-sighted if you must but please change the record and move on.

Craftyone, I am not sure if that was aimed at me or generally. I have been and am being patient and compliant. However, there are "some of the very best scientific brains" now wanting more clarification and disputing some of what is being said.

Personally, I am quite prepared to follow what they are saying as long as it is all transparent. I don't believe that is a lot to ask when my death might be the alternative.

I haven't seen much "government bashing" at all on here at all. I and I would assume others, need to understand better why the government is taking a different path to other countries. I am prepared to believe this is what we should do. I am not prepared to switch off my ability to reason.

I am not setting one way of doing things against another I just want to understand what is behind their thinking.

mokryna, I am very happy for the mother and new born. The baby will have immunity from birth and mum will have immunity so will not worry. They are primed with lots of T cells, us over 60s have very few if any, left