I don’t discriminate, but ….

And maybe it is fine to divide into goodies and baddies who knows.

I think it is all part of the same thing doodledog, five minutes before that story it was shame on you. It is some sort of dividing into goodies and baddies. Some reform voters might express the exact same views as I have ( misogyny associated with the burqa and the absolute necessity of speaking english) but may express it in a slightly different way, a way that many don't approve of.

MT62
That ok Cossy but what happens if I say I don’t want all these blokes coming on to our shores. Am a racist?
*Are the whole of Piddington racist because they don’t want a migrant camp there?^

It doesn’t bother me that they are black, brown, yellow or whatever but it’s their values that bother me they aren’t the same as ours & that is my only concern.

Gran22boys
Agree wholeheartedly.
I agree too.
And equally, for those who are pro TW, it doesn’t bother me if people want to live their fantasy, but to claim I’m transphobic if I don’t want them in female spaces, sports, etc. is wrong.

Galaxy

It is more the overall approach of calling posters racist or 'shane on you'. I find it completely reminiscent of the gender debate.

And I have more than once argued that, too. This feels like a sudden shift though - we were talking about grandchildren and slogans.

MT62

That ok Cossy but what happens if I say I don’t want all these blokes coming on to our shores. Am a racist?
Are the whole of Piddington racist because they don’t want a migrant camp there?
It doesn’t bother me that they are black, brown, yellow or whatever but it’s their values that bother me they aren’t the same as ours & that is my only concern.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Wyllow3

I cannot recall anyone saying someone should not be able to vote on those grounds? When? Don't just allege?

That wasn't directed at you, it's historical and it's cropped up under different guises.

I cannot recall anyone saying someone should not be able to vote on those grounds? When? Don't just allege?

Next they will suggest IQ tests before allowing some to vote. Now there’s an interesting idea ….You don’t need to be able to read and write, though, where I live but you get fined if you don’t vote.

Yes TerriBull I have seen that too on this forum, how those with no political education ( shudder) shouldn’t have a vote.

No surprises to say I agree with you Galaxy, I usually do!

Prejudice comes in many forms, whilst, and quite rightly we shun such attitudes based on skin colour, ethnicity and sexual orientation. There's one that often rears it's head that goes unchallenged. Brainpower! or the perceived lack of it. I've actually seen it here on GN a suggestion that some people don't have enough of it to cast a vote, with a subliminal suggestion of, it's a shame they're allowed to do so. Precluding themselves of course from this unfortunate demographic lacking in grey matter.

Controlled immigration is what we need and various past governments have let us down on this matter.

I completely agree Galaxy 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Shame not Shane!!!

It is more the overall approach of calling posters racist or 'shane on you'. I find it completely reminiscent of the gender debate.

Well, my feelings about slogans are well-known . I challenge them too, but that is not the same thing as objecting to a grandmother trying to steer her granddaughter towards a more tolerant attitude.

I dont sit on the fence though, I try to challenge some of the slogans. If its fine to talk about all the wonderful things that immigrants do ( I am second generation) then it is worth recognising that applies to adults who vote reform. Diversity may seem a strength for some people, but for others, it really isnt. I also think not talking about the importance of speaking English is unkindness, I think the burqa is a form of misogyny every time I see it. I am not sure that is fence sitting.

There is nothing wrong with trying to see different points of view, but equally, if everyone sat on the fence and let all sorts of discriminatory or hateful behaviour pass on the grounds that all viewpoints are valid, it would take no time before nefarious forces took advantage of the lack of moral compass and took over.

Yes, that sometimes means that certain values are deemed ‘wrong’ (eg rape, murder, racism) which some may consider to be imposing one set of values on those who don’t hold them. I think that’s a fair price to pay for living in a society where those things are acceptable.

The fence may be a comfortable place to sit for the privileged, but there are times when someone has to step up and make a stand for one direction or another.

petra

Lemonjam
The home office might monitor the amount of visas it issues, but up until July 25 it had no records of people who had over stayed their visa.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwykw93d393o

What no government has ever monitored visa overstays? If that is the case a good time to start?

Well the point is they have not had the experiences - it's hearsay.

But I was blessed with a good education that many have not had the opportunity for and am thankful for now. Yes, they are kind and lovely to each other and I recall lovely conversations about dear disabled DGd who after all is in their care, and the children in playgrounds and soft play are often curious and I just say, "her legs don't work very well, you see. Why, they ask, well, I say.....I just picked up on one boy whose was pushing vapes on other children but a local man agreed with me and we put a stop to it.

They just have different experiences to you that's all Wyllow.

Yup, Galaxy.

and I have a close friend whose eldest son works for a right wing think tank and doubt it will be a topic 🙄

Time to draw this disagreement on the specific issue I think. Of course some Reform workers where family live work in care and so on and are lovely people in many ways but tbh most have actually no experience of other cultures in this more or less all very long term all white zone:

and anyway, getting your children to parrot race hate views is not something all parents do whatever they vote or whatever their job is.

Lemonjam
The home office might monitor the amount of visas it issues, but up until July 25 it had no records of people who had over stayed their visa.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwykw93d393o

As you can imagine we tend not to discuss that a great deal

Given a lot to society - like the reform voters workkng in the schools, care homes, etc.
I would argue vehemently with those who believe men can be women but I would i hope never shame, my closest friend believes transwomen are women.

Hmmm.

I think we all have "Red lines". On trans matters for example?

I think it is shameful to think that because some people of a certain culture do or are such and such, they all must be. It goes against everything I believe in - labelling people who may have given and be giving a great deal to our society?

Our children may be very successful, or not: (we mostly care that they are happy). but fortunate or misfortune can play a part in learning that what you thought before ain't so.

Debate in N and P isn't all about trying to "win people over" now, is it?