Programme on ADHD this evening

It is the things the ADHD brain doesn't do well that makes up the negative side of things. Those are the things that medication assists with.

How does the medication selectively deal with the negatives whilst retaining the positives?

Desdemona

Where can I watch this?

Channel 4 catch up

In the same way someone labelled as ADHD might show distinctive brain patterns. We choose to label these in a negative way because in the context of what we choose to value they are seen not to be assets.

That is not what the specialists think. They are very quick to point out the positives. Many people with ADHD are able to do many things at once or can think quickly in a changing environment. Their obsessive traits can make them experts, accomplished musicians, etc as they can focus single mindedly on things. It is the things the ADHD brain doesn't do well that makes up the negative side of things. Those are the things that medication assists with.

Where can I watch this?

Mamie

Galaxy

Sorry should say 'they are trying to explore if some children are being misdiagnosed'

Did you read the response from the Science Media centre on the previous page Galaxy? It is very interesting with evidence from real experts. I do not say for one moment that every child with ADD/ ADHD will need medication, but I cannot understand wanting to deny it to those who do. As a SENCO back in the 80s it was heartbreaking when you could not do more to help.

I think anybody who watched Channel 4's programme should read the response from the Science Media for balance.
By the time children are formally assessed, they have normally been struggling at school in behaviour, concentration or both, parents have been pointed to parent classes, all the normal strategies put in place and a history of parental concerns which have been dismissed by the education system and doctors until parents either need to pay for help or the powers that be get fed up with parental concerns.
I can go back several generations where there is obvious neurodiversity coupled with a complete failure of their educational days to teach them to read or write. The difference between them and today's kids is that parents are more aware so are pushing for help. Previous generations accepted their children would be punished for their failings and would cover up where they could. My Grandmother was 1 of 13 but most died before they had children so their genes disappeared. My grandparents had 8 children, most of those went on to marry similar people to themselves and most had 4 children. Those children have had their own children and now their parents are looking for answers. Put all my generation in a room with our children and grandchildren and it pretty obvious that so many of us are ND. With a strong genetic component and more awareness, it is hardly surprising there is an explosion of diagnoses.

Galaxy

Yes I am really concerned about it, there is just beginning to be information relating to this being disseminated to professionals, mostly around trauma. So children who have experienced trauma in their lives often present in ways which can easily be interpreted as adhd or autism. It is quite possible that for some of these children this is an incorrect diagnosis. Thanks for bringing it up luckygirl.

this is the same with adults that are diagnosed too
including with personality disorders - trauma and attachment issues aren't considered

I agree Luckygirl13 medication should be the last resort.

We have a GC on the spectrum, they stopped their meds as they made them feel zombie like.

Luckygirl3

Mamie

GrannyGravy13

I am definitely in the adjust the class environment and teaching methods to suit the child over medication.

I am amazed that educational experts have not realised that not all children are the same, and therefore are unable to learn in the same circumstances.

The national curriculum is far too rigid, at primary and senior levels.

Do you think that schools do not already do that?
I can only speak from having observed hundreds of lessons, but I can assure you that differentiation, individual learning plans and tailored support are paramount in supporting individual children.
Why would you deny medication to children with severe ADHD?

Differentiation and individual learning plans etc. sit in the context of a system that is bound by SATs and OfSted criteria - and the whims of such as Gove that give us the fronted adverbials debacle.

The child is still in school trying to adapt to something that they (and I think many teachers) find very hard. There is a good case for asking why it is so hard and if changes might not be in order. The methods of education in our schools should not be exempt from scrutiny when looking at the increase in ADHD diagnoses.

No child with a known problem that is responsive to medication should be denied that, but it should be the last resort and environmental changes should be the first line. If these can solve or ease the problem then that should be the starting point.

Actually differentiation and learning plans go back to before Ofsted and SATs, though we did benefit from a lot of peripatetic specialist teachers back then.

Luckygirl3

*I am amazed that educational experts have not realised that not all children are the same, and therefore are unable to learn in the same circumstances.*

Teachers know this - hence the frustration of so many who are tied into a rigid curriculum and forced to teach to the tests and inspections.

Totally agree, we were fortunate enough to use the private sector for some of our children.

I am involved with one of our local primary schools and they do their best to accommodate children’s needs, but sometimes a statement is the only way forward.

I actually think there were some signs of 'conversation' in that response mamie, just the beginnings. I have both personal and professional experience of the outsourced online assessments, I will just speak on the personal level and say the one I was involved in was poor.
I will say that I dont know many schools these days ( I am in a lot of different schools) that dont ensure movement breaks, and a range of adaptions.

Mamie

GrannyGravy13

I am definitely in the adjust the class environment and teaching methods to suit the child over medication.

I am amazed that educational experts have not realised that not all children are the same, and therefore are unable to learn in the same circumstances.

The national curriculum is far too rigid, at primary and senior levels.

Do you think that schools do not already do that?
I can only speak from having observed hundreds of lessons, but I can assure you that differentiation, individual learning plans and tailored support are paramount in supporting individual children.
Why would you deny medication to children with severe ADHD?

Differentiation and individual learning plans etc. sit in the context of a system that is bound by SATs and OfSted criteria - and the whims of such as Gove that give us the fronted adverbials debacle.

The child is still in school trying to adapt to something that they (and I think many teachers) find very hard. There is a good case for asking why it is so hard and if changes might not be in order. The methods of education in our schools should not be exempt from scrutiny when looking at the increase in ADHD diagnoses.

No child with a known problem that is responsive to medication should be denied that, but it should be the last resort and environmental changes should be the first line. If these can solve or ease the problem then that should be the starting point.

Galaxy

Sorry should say 'they are trying to explore if some children are being misdiagnosed'

Did you read the response from the Science Media centre on the previous page Galaxy? It is very interesting with evidence from real experts. I do not say for one moment that every child with ADD/ ADHD will need medication, but I cannot understand wanting to deny it to those who do. As a SENCO back in the 80s it was heartbreaking when you could not do more to help.

As well as conditions that have been dismissed wrongly we have also seen many scenarios where allowing people to raise difficult issues without being called names would have put a halt to some harmful practices. I am not saying that the diagnosis is harmful or even the medication is harmful ( although as someone who has seen some of the dreadful impacts of various medication on people who aren't neorotypical I have some concerns) but that allowing people to discuss these issues might be beneficial for some children.

Special units attached to mainstream schools might help, with properly trained teachers and assistants.

Sorry should say 'they are trying to explore if some children are being misdiagnosed'

No they are not teaching that worried well. They are saying some children are trying to explore whether some children are being misdiagnosed. But very difficult to do that obviously when even the slightest attempt at discussion is met with accusations of ablism, etc.

Severe ADHD is hell to live with and devastating to the people close to them. I have been constantly shouted and sworn at in shops, pubs and on public transport, people get out of the way. If ever he hit me I wouldn't get up again, m he is twice my size, its getting worse. So far so good, you get no help after 18. Its a
struggle

GrannyGravy13

I am definitely in the adjust the class environment and teaching methods to suit the child over medication.

I am amazed that educational experts have not realised that not all children are the same, and therefore are unable to learn in the same circumstances.

The national curriculum is far too rigid, at primary and senior levels.

Do you think that schools do not already do that?
I can only speak from having observed hundreds of lessons, but I can assure you that differentiation, individual learning plans and tailored support are paramount in supporting individual children.
Why would you deny medication to children with severe ADHD?

I am amazed that educational experts have not realised that not all children are the same, and therefore are unable to learn in the same circumstances.

Teachers know this - hence the frustration of so many who are tied into a rigid curriculum and forced to teach to the tests and inspections.

valdali

Above & beyond the drugs though, it is good for it to be recognised. I cannot remember where I've put things, lose things, forget things. My Mum used to be horrible she use to say try to look after things I would tell her I tried hard, she would say, not hard enough you have to try harder. I'[ve been in tears trying to explain how much I cared about not losing things, not upsetting her, but it just didn't translate into being able to pay attention better on a minute to minute basis throughout the day.
My son has it too & D-i-L & me, & to a lesser extent his dad, do understand however annoying it is for us, he can't help it, & we all try & devise strategies.
So even without drug treatment, a diagnosis can mean less misunderstanding & blame for someone with this (annoying) condition.
We both did quite well at school although known for fidgetting from Y1 through to Y13.

Oh yes, that all resonates!
I've spent my adult life permanently anxious about forgetting things and daren't put anything that needs to be dealt with out of sight (out of mind) .
...and time blindness too - you always think you've got plenty of time to be somewhere but then.. the bath had to be cleaned before you can shower, you forgot to iron that shirt, the car needs fuel, oh, and you still haven't had lunch yet even though it's past 4pm...
The worst is when people say "Just concentrate...stay focussed..." - don't you think I would if I could?!

I am definitely in the adjust the class environment and teaching methods to suit the child over medication.

I am amazed that educational experts have not realised that not all children are the same, and therefore are unable to learn in the same circumstances.

The national curriculum is far too rigid, at primary and senior levels.

Luckygirl3

Mamie

I would say the child is back on medication because it makes it easier for him to learn.

There is of course the important question about what and how children learn.
They are all subject to the narrow curriculum and aims of our current system.
Does learning this take precedence over a child's well-being? Does it justify medicating a child?
Would it be legitimate to also ask whether the school system might also be a factor? The idea that the meds make it possible for him to learn presupposes that what and how he is being asked to learn is not open to scrutiny.
Many teachers are frustrated by the whats and hows of what they are being asked to teach and would like the flexibility to respond to the needs of the pupils as they really are.

This makes sense to me. So long as people talk in terms of 'something wrong' with people, and what might be 'to blame', and insisting on there being one right way to learn, then children are going to suffer. So are adults, for that matter.

If, on the other hand, we recognise that people are all different, and we thrive under different conditions, everyone has a chance. I recognise that that isn't straightforward in school situations (particularly when children and teachers are measured by 'standard' attainment tests), and any differential teaching methods would have to be, and be seen to be, fair to all. I feel the same about adjustments made in the workplace unless it is obvious that they are to compensate for something (eg ramps, hearing loops etc). Allowing some but not others to work from home, etc just causes resentment, as it is prioritising some needs above others.

All the same, I would rather see children taught differentially than medicated to fit with an imposed norm.

This response to the programme from the Science Media Centre is interesting.
www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-the-tv-show-the-great-adhd-myth/

Luckygirl3

Mamie

I would say the child is back on medication because it makes it easier for him to learn.

There is of course the important question about what and how children learn.
They are all subject to the narrow curriculum and aims of our current system.
Does learning this take precedence over a child's well-being? Does it justify medicating a child?
Would it be legitimate to also ask whether the school system might also be a factor? The idea that the meds make it possible for him to learn presupposes that what and how he is being asked to learn is not open to scrutiny.
Many teachers are frustrated by the whats and hows of what they are being asked to teach and would like the flexibility to respond to the needs of the pupils as they really are.

I worked with a Senior Inspector who used to say, if you want to put more into the curriculum, what are you going to take out? Whilst I am sure we could muddle along without fronted adverbials, it remains the key question. More money for highly trained teaching assistants would help too.

Galaxy

No theworriedwell like training modules in local authorites being currently delivered run by professionals to examine the issue in particular in relation to trauma.

So they are teaching ADHD is a myth because some children have trauma? What about the kids who have no trauma?