Group dynamics.

Thanks for the suggestions. I don’t think it is a ‘childish’ thing, so much as an older person thing - both A and are acting in ways that fit with how life has taught them, I suppose. One that she won’t do what others tell her - a sort of ‘make a stand’ mentality, and the other that she is just doing what she enjoys and would do if others weren’t there.

Both are in the wrong and both are right, depending on how you look at it. I don’t see one as more ‘to blame’ than the other.

The driving thing is important, as A can easily add things into trips, and the rest of us can’t easily say no, or even ‘you go ahead and we’ll meet you at X’, as we are all travelling with her. That’s just what she’s used to, I think - when not with us, she plans ‘on the hoof’, so I don’t think it’s a new thing, any more than is A’s rebellion against having to fit in with others’ choices - both have just decided on ways to deal with the way life has gone (‘I won’t be pushed around any more’, or ‘I will put me first for a change’), and that side of things is causing the clash.

I honestly don’t think that someone taking them aside to tell them off would help, as I think they are both doing what they think is best, if that makes sense. If they were children then explaining about group dynamics might help, but perhaps (and this could well be me overthinking!) it is a reaction to the group dynamics that they have lived with so far that is underpinning the situation.

I do think that asking for a show of hands could work, or more of an agreement about what a day out will entail before we go. It’s a shame, as spontaneous changes are fun, but this tension is not.

Could you ask for a show of hands when decisions are being made which will affect everyone? If it's a draw, toss a coin.

That’s not a dynamic I recognise from my life, but I’m not one for group outings, I prefer one-to-one.

Your description of what happens in your group reminds me of my two youngest grandchildren when they niggle away at each other. Their parents generally deal with it by separating them temporarily to have some thinking time but I guess that’s not an option on an adult’s day out!

Do they complain about each other when apart ie is there a general dislike between them? People do change and their new persona isn’t always likeable.

Are you be brave enough to say to them that you’ve noticed they’re not enjoying the events lately and are there changes they’d like?

It would be a shame to lose the group but my tolerance for being made to feel uncomfortable by other people’s behaviour is very low now and I’d probably decide not to go any more.

All this is assuming there’s no likelihood of dementia rearing it head, or other illnesses making them cantankerous.

Maybe not new but sort of got more that way as people have got older?

Erm....thinks...start with suggesting a coffee all together at a point all can make to discuss "putting a few dates in our diaries ahead and what we'll all do in advance so we know what we'll do".

It wont totally avoid conflict but less chance for on the spot manipulation on the evening or the day out?

You have phrased this as if the tension between A and B is something relatively new.

I’d be inclined to have a quiet word with each and ask what’s going on because chances are it’s something petty that has festered.

All four or you should have equal say in what you do together irrespective of who drives. Perhaps it’s because C and D have gone with the flow that A and B have become competitive.

Time for a reset.