Should the NHS charge for such things?

SunnySusie

Its a simple system at my dentists, when you make an appointment they take credit/debit card details and if you dont turn up they charge. You get an e-mail and a text reminder, one a week before, with a link to re-arrange, and one 24 hours before. They dont get involved with reasons why you were a no show at all.

Is he a private or NHS dentist? If the latter, I’m surprised he’s allowed to have a ‘no exceptions’ policy. In fact, I doubt he is but probably no one dare complain in case they get deregistered. .

From NHS web page

What should not happen at an NHS dental appointment

An NHS dentist or dental professional:

should not charge a deposit before assessing your mouth and teeth or checking your symptoms
should not ask you to pay privately for an appointment to check if you will be accepted for NHS dental treatment
should not ask you to become a private patient so your child can get NHS dental treatment
Shoukd not charge you a fee for missing NHS dental appointments

Mamie

Tuliptree

MissAdventure

Because france has essentially private Healthcare
They also stay i touch with pafients after an op, send them to convalesce, give regular check up appointments, send in district nurses.
Why can't the uk do those things?

France spends more than us as a % of GDP and per capita. I don’t think it’s accurate to call it ‘essentially private health care’ as the main system is organised by the state with compulsory contributions with people topping up with mutuelles many if which are run by the unions.

The health care in France is essentially state funded, with top-up insurance for those who can afford it. The top-up insurance providers cannot discriminate against those with existing conditions. If your income is below the threshold the funding is 100%. If you have a a long term condition or a serious illness such as cancer then it is 100%. It is a good, socialist system, of which we had extensive experience in our twenty years there.

This just sounds so much more sensible, because of existing conditions it is often impossible to get private health care in the UK, and many would be happy to pay for top-up insurance if they knew that they would get a good service and that the money raised would go only to health care - unlike our ever increasing taxes.
Our current government has increased taxes, brought in new ones, and the new money is not directed in such a productive way.

jocork said I understand airlines overbook knowing that some passengers don't turn up. Perhaps a similar system is what is required, as long as the doctors are prepared to work a bit longer if everyone does turn up!

My GP trainee dd says missed appointments are an opportunity for them to catch up with the ongoing mountain of paper/computer work they have to do. GP’s aren’t sitting around twiddling their thumbs when there are no-shows.

Graso I completely agree.Hospitals are not hotels.

Problem is admin. Each surgery would need to employ at keast one f/t staff member to take people's card details, process payment, pay 2% charges etc

Sarnia

I had to make outpatients appointments as part of my job in the NHS. I had access to Registrar's and Consultant's clinic lists and was always disappointed to see so many spaces with 'No Show' added to the patient details. They all had waiting lists which were made worse by patients failing to keep their appointments. Making a charge would reduce this, I'm sure. Also charge people who use ambulances like taxis.

Agree so many people take it for granted unfortunately.

Witzend

*mokryna*, a French friend of a dd - living and working in the U.K. - bitterly resents having to pay IIRC €250 a month for the care of her father in France, since she says he was always a workshy layabout, and a hopeless dad.

People can object, my friend did and put her point forward that her mother neglected her when she was an child and she won.
That being said parents cannot legally disinherited children

I would be happy to pay for meals IF they were reasonable. But from one hospital to another it is highly variable. If you are on benefits and in for a long stay, they will cut your income.
Dentists, even NHS ones often charge for missed appointments, so why not doctors, especially hospital appointments? But I would be very much against paying for appointments - this happened before NHS and poorer folks simply did not see a doctor sometimes until it was too late.

I think the admin costs would far outweigh any benefit.
Some people would argue, whilst being totally at fault, others will have a genuine reason why they would not want to pay.
There are so many variables.

WithNobsOnIt

I definitely think that people should be charged for missed dental, medical and hospital appointments.

Except where there go has been a genuine mix up with letters or the ambulance hasn't turned on time,or at all to take them there. Especially with mobility issues. And of course just too ill to attend

Went to my GP.yesterday and the the Surgery post this missed appointments infomation.on paper sheets on the reception room notice board every month.

Something like 10 per cent of people did not turn up for appointments.

I think people who do not attend without a good reason should be charged a £25 fine. And should be given 3 chances. Then struck off as a patient.

God Bless the NHS.

Please don't abuse it.

With letter mix ups how do you prove you didn't get the letter?

Can be useful sometimes. My GP referred me for a Dexa scan, I was warned I wouldn't be seen for months due to waiting list. I live about a five minutes drive to the hospital. A week after the referral I got a call to say they'd had a no show and two last minute cancellations could I get there quickly. Yes and I jumped in the car and got there as fast as I could. When I got in to the scanner room the woman doing the scan looked at my file and said, "how on earth did you get such a quick appointment?

At least one of those appointments got used and I was pleased to get it sorted fast. I think the receptionist did a good job getting that space filled.

The admin involved (more trouble than it’d be worth) is so often given as a reason for not charging, yet other countries seem to manage it well enough.

In Denmark, health-care, except dental care, is free of charge, as we pay doctors' and hospital charges through our taxes, as you do in the U.K. The state for some odd reason only pays two-thirds of our dental care, and you have to pay optician's charges and the cost of glasses yourself, unless you are practically blind. Other health-care such as chiropractors, aqupuncturists, chiropodists are paid by the client, athough in certain circumstances you may be able to get some of the cost covered by our version of the NHS, which also pays out a very small amount of money to cover part of funeral expenses.

Basically you pay a fine, if you cancel an appointment of the type you pay for yourself, or do not show up.

Hospitals and consultants now send a text message a day or two before your appointment reminding you of it. Doing so, has saved the state an enormous amount of money, as many of the no-shows have been entirely due to people forgetting that they had an appointment, or mistaking the date.

This seems a better way of tackling the problem of patients not attending than fining them, as it reduces the number who fail to turn up. Obviously, this means they are seen and treated, or at least sent onwards in the hospital service, which can literally save lives, or keep costs and time down to one or two appointments rather than a lengthy course of treatment.

Hotel charges are a diversion from the real NHS problems: waiting lists, getting a GP appointment, etc.

Not to mention doctors' strikes, cancelled operations, etc. The hotel charges idea - would it go beyond food: bed linen, ward cleaning, hospital radio? - was pushed under Thatcher and was canned even then.

I imagine appointments are missed because the appointments letters often arrive after the appointment

Thank goodness they’ve brought in a text reminder thing

How about a donation box?
If you've been happy with your care, an appointment, your treatment or whatever, you put some money in the box.

MissAdventure

How about a donation box?
If you've been happy with your care, an appointment, your treatment or whatever, you put some money in the box.

If Museums can, why not 🤷‍♀️

MissAdventure

How about a donation box?
If you've been happy with your care, an appointment, your treatment or whatever, you put some money in the box.

Any time I pay any sort of tax, I give to the NHS. That’ll do.

Witzend

The admin involved (more trouble than it’d be worth) is so often given as a reason for not charging, yet other countries seem to manage it well enough.

But they have different systems. Set up in myriad different ways.
Also, they tend to spend more on admin costs because of this than the NHS. It’s never ‘free’ to collect money

Surely the point of the NHS is that it is free st the point of need?

But that is medical need, not food, clothing and shelter. I understand that many illnesses are linked to the other but it should not be in this day an age everything, the system cannot cope.

why shouldn't inpatients be fed and be able to borrow hospital clothing, some people have no relatives or anyone to care for them. I'm sure hospital staff don't want to deal with ill people sitting around starving in dirty clothes

unless I've misunderstood

Treatment and care should remain free, but missed appointments just lead to the need for more care, and deny it to others who could have had the missed appointment.

Workarounds have been suggested for those who can't help missing because of late notice, transport issues, care needs etc, and options to escape fines if notice is given have been mooted too. Nobody is suggesting a draconian money-raking scheme, just a way to deter people from missing appointments they could have kept.

Do people really want to see a system where people can take a place in the queue and decide on the day whether to honour it or not, despite the fact that others are waiting for their place to come through? Should those who have missed get another place in the same queue?