So, what does “class” actually mean to you nowadays?

M0nica

Well, I have opted out of it.

Good for you. The problem is that others haven't and will still judge you on whatever 'class' they perceive you to be a part of.

I have often wondered why so many prime ministers have degrees from Oxford. They have not always proved to be the best person for the job.

It's not just Conservatives, Harold Wilson and Tony Blair both graduated from Oxford and Keir Starmer did post grad studies there. All three women prime ministers were Oxford graduates. (yes even Liz Truss).

Is there some kind of elitist form of positive discrimination afoot?

Well, I have opted out of it.

Usedtobeblonde

I think on the whole the class system is alive and thriving in the UK today.

I believe the same, the class system is well and truly alive.

In two systems, not necessarily crossing.

Economic, jobs/professions, money AND manners, etiquette.

Class is still very much there but it doesn’t matter in the way that it used to.

M0nica

MT62

I don’t think they have a class system in America do they?
Is it white, Blue collar thing?

It is based on money. Poor people are seen as Trailer Trash. Anyone not making money is seen as a loser and money gives power and prestige.

Like my ex Bible Belt Trump Voting friend said: Hey honey, you're a foreigner. You just don't understand the American Dream. I bailed out on her as she could only talk about her matching drapes, flower pots, and carpets for two hours!

Yes class is essential for sociologists, public sector workers, clinicians, politicians etc to identify sectors, and outcomes.

Classic is also used used in a social sense. Often making no sense😄😄

M0nica

In the socio demographic sense? Nothing. Income is the only factor that matters.

Pretty much agree but it is a word that is still used quite widely. Maybe one day it won't be but while it's in use it helps to understand the specific usage in any conversation.

When it's used on GN discusions on economics there is often a detailed explanation of how the writer is using it. It's when it used on opinion only posts then it can be a little more pejorative, or used so an explanation can be.

I don’t see the objection to the word ‘posh’.

I certainly aren’t ‘posh’, but I know people who are.

And it doesn’t necessarily equate to money.

I think of a lady who my DD was nanny for.

She had money, a beautiful home, highly paid job.

She was ‘posh’.

But if at a stroke overnight her money, home, job, disappeared, she would still have been ‘posh’, no doubt about it.

To me it still exists, but it’s not something you talk about. And it has very little to do with how much money anyone has.

MT62

I don’t think they have a class system in America do they?
Is it white, Blue collar thing?

It is based on money. Poor people are seen as Trailer Trash. Anyone not making money is seen as a loser and money gives power and prestige.

No, they categorise people purely by how wealthy they are, no reference to class at all.

I don’t think they have a class system in America do they?
Is it white, Blue collar thing?

I think on the whole the class system is alive and thriving in the UK today.

petra

Andrew Mountbatten Winsor is a perfect example of how meaningless the word is.

He is upper class. Nobody said the upper classes are necessarily well-behaved.

Andrew Mountbatten Winsor is a perfect example of how meaningless the word is.

Jilly Cooper published a book about British class system in 1979 which seems rather dated now. I didn't take too kindly to being described as "Definitely Disgusting."

For me there is a difference between the place you occupy in the class system based on background, heritage, income and outlook and the place you occupy as a decent, honest, polite and likeable human being. In my view, the former is class the latter is worthiness.

Class for me is having a set of manners, integrity, responsibility, and trustworthiness. So, it is not how much you have been empire building but how much you have put into being authentic and modest.

I tend to go for education more than anything else. Most of the people I get on well with seem to be well educated, but they all come from very different backgrounds and have very different lifestyles. When it comes to actual money I've usually found that old money families are much nicer than the nouveau riche. It seems to be the ones with new money who have a "Do you know who I am?" attitude.

GrannyGravy13

Class is like style, doesn’t matter how much money you have it’s impossible to buy.

You either have it or you don’t.

True, along with the ability to make others feel comfortable, welcomed and respected.

I used to treat anyone who spoke with a certain accent as posh, upper class but not rich as I knew quite a few who didn't have two pennies to rub together. Still kind of think like that, how people speak, present themself rather than on wealth.

I think one aspect of "real class" is that someone who possesses it doesn't automatically dismiss those who have a different amount of money, power, taste, education, whatever, than they themselves do. This is true from both "above" and "below" them in traditional Two-Ronnies-class-sketch terms. I am thinking of two people I knew in particular. One was a warehouseman in a factory, with only mediocre education and no money, the other an ex-guards officer with a distinguished family tree and top social connections. They never met one another, but they would have got on very well if they had, because each would have regarded the other as an individual, not as a cliche to despise because their background was not the same. Each had "real class".

I think in terms of definitions needed for social, planning, and political matters

it is in a process of change because of the huge changes in working patterns, earning abilities related to those changes, and huge factors like the numbers now going to uni,
how education is valued or viewed, how much people are aware of a larger social picture than a purely local one:

assumptions from one's upbringing dont shift that easily.

So we see changes in social habits and preferences, and is going to keep changing. What will happen with AI?

I'm sure statisticians/politicians have categories and advertisers too have ways of identifying specific groups. I just don't know what they are now.

For sure, it's not related as closely to income as it was when most of us were young.

People still do use words like "posh" where I live, most certainly, it means how you speak, how much education you have, how you present.

Being classy is not judging on peoples social status but seeing all as individuals with respect and curiosity

Until for me evidence arises to show they as individuals don't really care at all about issues like real deprivation, are willing to trample over others for self gain, will deliberately choose to be hurtful or "knife in the back" people and so on.

I think it is wishful thinking to deny the existence of class distinctions in this country. They aren’t defined by money, as in America. There are very rich pop singers and footballers who are far from upper class. It’s more to do with background, manners, education. Speech, too. I have often wondered if the way people speak is as significant in other countries.

“The way an Englishman speaks completely classifies him.
The moment he opens his mouth he makes some other Englishman despise him.”

That’s from My Fair Lady. “Despise” might be a bit strong nowadays, but there’s still a grain of truth in it.

Cossy

GrannyGravy13

Class is like style, doesn’t matter how much money you have it’s impossible to buy.

You either have it or you don’t.

That what my dear parents thought

Along with manners, respect and etiquette.

The one thing my DH thinks and says is that he is as good as anyone one else and always, without exception, treats people with respect and good manners.

Thanks for your interesting responses, and so sorry about my awful clanger with my spelling, of course it’s nouveau riche! How I long for an edit button ☹️☹️

Oh Cossy mine particularly my Father would say anyone discussing class, obviously didn’t have any 🙀