Being asked for an honest opinion

Oops. Thanks NotSpaghetti. Not sure how that happened. Very odd. I must have returned to the Honest thread. Must concentrate more in future!

This isn't the "ring" thread StTrinians

I am still happily married to same husband, and I always wear my ring. The only times I take it off are for fear of it getting caught in machinery. I did wear other rings, but had a few close escapes, wigh one large ring getting caught in weldmesh fencing (whilst playing tennis!), mh wedding ring got caught on a radiator...whilst running past, both times the ring broke fortunately. I had to have them all (5) cut off after an accident, and flying home, the next day at hospital they told me later that I could have lost my fingers, which had all swelled up! So that has really put me off wearing lots of rings. I just wear 3 now, including my wedding ring.

I would not offer praise if it is boring.
That is unhelpful and dishonest.
She needs to know it is far too long (even after the apparent cuts).

I still wonder if it's historical or otherwise based on "truth".
That is SO hard to get round!

Personally, I would be honest, because she risks writing another very long and boring book otherwise. It is much better to say, "in my opinion..." then give an honest answer, as it was so long. You
will all face yet another reading ordeal if length of next book is not appropriate, and you don't say anything now. Good luck.

Nanna8 says it in a nutshell.

I would be honest and say you could not get into it, she asked for honesty.

I didn’t know that JKR was once self -published. I heard (largely via my agent) that after so many rejections she was taken on, with a very small advance, by the agent who eventually kicked her career off. He was once pointed out to me at a big writers/agents/publishers’ do - a very suave looking older man with silver hair and a quietly pleased with himself expression.
As my agent also said, some of the publishers’ editors who were also there, who’d rejected the first Harry Potter, were quietly crying into their Chardonnay!

Macaydia

Quercus

No writer ever wants a totally honest opinion, not ever, even if they say they do.
Do the 'sandwich' feedback: make positive comments about anything that even vaguely merits it, then one minor criticism, and finish on another positive note.

The forum that Quercus described as a three part method is the proper way to critique and encourage. You are but one reviewer. Be honest so that she reaches new levels with each attempt. It is not that she is good or bad. It is that you are honest and she strives to improve.

This reminds me of one of my most excruciating evenings - going to an "off-West End" production of a play written by a friend. It was absolutely terrible. We ran out afterwards desperate not to be spotted by her.

Rocketstop2

I think I would suggest to the hobby group that they each write on a piece of paper, anonymously, one thing they liked about the book and one thing they didn't.Tell the Author that everyone felt a little embarassed giving one to one praise or criticism, so this is the method you have adopted. She gets HONEST opinions without turning it into personal affront or argument and everyone else is saved from awkwardness and embarassment.

this is a good way around it for sure.

nanna8

Point out the good things first ( assuming there are some !) and then say you found it a little bit long ?

Do the usual coaching circle. Good stuff first, Ask her what she would like to improve on and then tell her what you think could have been better. Finish off with a compliment about the best bit about her writing.
She needs to go away feeling positive which this usually enables if done well.
It is harder to write a review but you could just write what you found good about her first novel.

Be prepared if you are truthful as if you do all give feedback and are negative she will be hurt. It’s finding the right things to say. Start with the bits you did find interesting (if any) and be kind on the negative

You could just say it’s not your kind of book but how well she did it write it - not simple task

Describe something you liked in the book and WHY it worked. eg " The chapter where ...happened worked well because ..." " The plot twist where ...happened was great because ....."

Then say "I wonder whether if you used that technique in the chapter on ...would that work well? "Maybe cutting back on ....would make it as exciting as..."

Another way is gentle questioning. " I read the section on ... What was your thinking on including that?. Maybe Im missing something but I wasnt sure"

I think I would suggest to the hobby group that they each write on a piece of paper, anonymously, one thing they liked about the book and one thing they didn't.Tell the Author that everyone felt a little embarassed giving one to one praise or criticism, so this is the method you have adopted. She gets HONEST opinions without turning it into personal affront or argument and everyone else is saved from awkwardness and embarassment.

An honesty sandwich… first the good, then the bad then finish the critique with more ‘good’!

Tell the truth - what you might have liked and what you definitely didn't like. Be gentle if you have to but it rather sounds as though this person is on a roll and will continue in he4r current style so if you don't want to be placed in the same position this time next year, be honest now.

Isn't it asking a lot to expect friends and acquaintances to buy a self published book, read it, review it, provide detailed feedback and so on? Is it the custom for everybody in the hobby group to get this much input into their hobby from other members of the group?

You seem a very kind person and want to support your friend but you are not responsible for making her a good writer and in fact can't do so.

Neither are you responsible for protecting her from whatever disappointments or financial loss her ambition might cost her. And again I doubt you could , even if you try. It sounds as if she is set upon following her own road, as we all have the right to do.

In trying to help her, you could just upset her and destroy the friendship.

Best not to get too involved. Do as people here suggest and make one one or two pleasant comments at the meeting.

if the big publishers dont want it she is wasting her time, the worst grammatically published book of ever was 50 shades of grey and publishers were fighting for the printing rights, tell your friend this and perhaps she will stop wasting her money on self publishing for a handful of friends

Such a pity the author did not get opinions from a few of the group before publishing.

I was sent a book to read before publication. I spent ages on it and wrote a very carefully thought out review emphasising positives and minimising negatives. The author was furious. He only focussed on the relatively few negative comments. However, he didn't go ahead and publish it. It was a dreadful book!

.

Indeed. JKR's first Harry Potter book was turned rejected TWELVE times before being accepted by Bloomsbury.

My, how they must have all kicked themselves later!!!!
.

It's costing your friend money, if she can afford to spend even more on a second book then that's OK (not sure how you would judge this) but if not then you have to be truthful in order to be a good friend.
As others have said emphasise some good points in the book, if there are any otherwise be imaginative but then say that being brutally honest you found it to be long winded and that perhaps sending it to be edited before being published might be a very good thing. Good luck!

Is this by any chance historical?
I think history often gets in the way of narrative.

This may be key.

As my husband, a writer, says “slaughter your babies” (though someone else said this first).
Writers become too attached to "precious" ideas or fascinating research or a particular character which can lead to bloated or unfocused work.
Maybe this is her best advice in future.

Today 'self-publishing' almost always means using Amazon, where there is no up-front cost at all, and revisions can be made at any time. Different if she's gone the old route of paying for a few hundred copies to be printed of course! And she may have paid for professional assistance with layout etc.

'Great story, but it badly needs trimming and tightening up' is an honest comment without being too hurtful I think.

A relative self published a book, having paid an independent editor. The book was still awful! It was meant to be fiction but read like a history lesson.

She would get really upset if anyone suggested it needed editing.

I'd say only what I liked about the book (presuming some of it was OK). She's going to publish the next one whatever you or the group says ...