The Grand National

“So do you think that fatally injured horses should be left in pain, whether they’re race horses or not?’

No, Mollygo, I don’t. Many injuries are far from fatal. They render the creature useless for the owner’s purposes, though, so off they go. (Personal experience: it was the case then, decades ago. Veterinary science has improved beyond measure but still racehorses are shot for perfectly recoverable injuries.)

Re the race itself. It is now ‘The National’ in name only. The hard core of the fence has been removed. The ditches are filled in. The drops have gone. It’s watered for days so the ground is good/soft. Horses have to meet certain criteria before they can run in it. The horse that won yesterday wouldn’t have got round a few years ago as he literally ploughed through most of the fences; in fact he only jumped one cleanly. I admit that, back in the day people used to watch it to see horses fall; there was something gladiatorial about it but, thankfully we have moved on from that.The drop at Bechers was greater on the inside of the track so good jumpers could save ground by jumping there. Today it looks just like any other jump. It’s still a test of stamina and jockeyship but not in the way it was. No idea why so many fell/unseated yesterday; most of them were very sound jumpers. Mr Vango is going to be ok thankfully.

Basgetti

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

Oh, for heavens sake. Racehorses are NOT 'lashed', whether in training or while actually racing.

I have some sympathy with some of the arguments that people are making for abolishing horse racing, I even agree with some of them, but the hysteria over the 'whip' is totally misinformed.

Modern 'whips' are designed so as to not hurt the horse; they use what the horse can see and hear for their effect, not pain. This was all explained on the last thread we had on this topic, which was only a few weeks ago, with much the same participants.

GrannyGravy13

nightowl perhaps you should take up the cause of all the over fed under exercised ponies and horses purchased every day for inexperienced children and their parents to keep up with the Jones’s

Left in stables for days on end, fed on whatever current pony nuts are in fashion, hardly exercised, ridden poorly, ill fitting tack, etc. etc.

You are quite right but your tack is called 'whataboutery' for a reason. Whataboutery adds nothing to the case in hand.

sixandahalf

But you have already posted about having a flutter and horses not doing what they don't want to do.

This would seem to indicate you are fine with the GN.

So your comment about ponies kept by those who wish keep up with the Jones' is whataboutery.

I said the horse i fancied

I do not gamble on anything.

Racing is always evolving to make it safer, as it should do.

But you have already posted about having a flutter and horses not doing what they don't want to do.

This would seem to indicate you are fine with the GN.

So your comment about ponies kept by those who wish keep up with the Jones' is whataboutery.

Mollygo

Basgetti

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

So do you think that fatally injured horses should be left in pain, whether they’re race horses or not?

I think when Basgetti: wrote any sort of injury they included non fatal as well as fatal injuries Mollygro.

sixandahalf not whataboutery

Just pointing out facts…

GrannyGravy13

nightowl perhaps you should take up the cause of all the over fed under exercised ponies and horses purchased every day for inexperienced children and their parents to keep up with the Jones’s

Left in stables for days on end, fed on whatever current pony nuts are in fashion, hardly exercised, ridden poorly, ill fitting tack, etc. etc.

What's that got to do with anything?

Whataboutery at its' finest.

Definitely not. I hate horse racing and greyhound racing and think they should be banned.

nightowl perhaps you should take up the cause of all the over fed under exercised ponies and horses purchased every day for inexperienced children and their parents to keep up with the Jones’s

Left in stables for days on end, fed on whatever current pony nuts are in fashion, hardly exercised, ridden poorly, ill fitting tack, etc. etc.

Basgetti

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

They are often euthanised straight away with most fractures because it is very difficult to repair them. Horses can’t stand still for weeks on end waiting for a fracture to heal and they often get further complications with infections etc. There have been several cases when they have tried to save horses but after several day/weeks/months of trying have had to give up. Broken ribs or pelvises don’t seem to be such a problem but horses feet and legs are so complicated along with their digestive systems so there’s the ongoing danger of laminitis and colic (which I will always maintain is the worst thing that can happen to any horse).

^Certainly not confined in stables. They were taken down to the beach twice a day for an hours run for years. I was lucky enough to be there^

But REKA, horses should not be in stables with two trips to the beach every day. They have evolved to walk (yes walk) miles in a day and they need that constant movement for their health. Riding is no substitute for turnout with other horses where they can behave as they’re meant to behave.

This is not my prejudice speaking, there are many people with far more expertise saying these things all the time on social media and especially today in the wake of this awful tragedy. The bottom line is, racehorses may to our eyes live like kings but in fact all they want is to live like horses.

Basgetti

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

So do you think that fatally injured horses should be left in pain, whether they’re race horses or not?

I endorse Nightowl, BlueBelle and ViceVersa's messages

I’m reminded of Pam Ayres’ poem about a racehorse making his will before a race, leaving his packet of polos to his stable mate. And mentioning, IIRC, the ‘nasty little short-arsed bastard’ who was his jockey.

I’ve got a book of her verses, but can’t find it. However I did once hear her recite it at a brilliant, packed performance. Mostly so funny, but one or two, inc. this, very poignant.

The horses are well cared for (putting aside training by being lashed) until they suffer any sort of injury, when they are promptly shot.

Should have been banned years ago.

I have always said the same, if jockeys died instead of horses it would be a different story.

They will never stop while so much money is involved. The only concession might be to ban the whip. Is that a possibility?

I endorse BlueBelle and ViceVersa's messages.

Absolutely disgusting and not in tune with people caring for animals. Shame on anyone who supports this foul sport or any other sport that uses animals for unhealthy entertainment.... dogs, roosters, bulls, whether rodeos or hunting or fishing - it all disgusts me.

*Barbarian, definition* : cruel, rude, or uneducated person.

The correct term for this sort of glee from the entertainment of events like the Grand National is called "deanimalisation". If you can't come to grips with this it is because you treasure history and tradition over common sense and compassion for other sentient beings. It is time to mature your consciousness.

Why would you be thrilled to watch a sport that kills a horse and not thrilled to watch a dog dying in the same race? Is it only because most of the beasts live?

Read and endorsed

ViceVersa

I'm with you on that, BlueBelle. I've been around horses all my life - I've been to racing yards and I've ridden ex racehorses. But I can no longer defend the likes of the Grand National. I've said this before and I will say it again - if jockeys were dying or suffering horrific injuries in the same numbers as the horses, can you imagine the outcry?
Yes, there are jockeys, owners and trainers who genuinely care for the horses and look after them well, but when it comes down to the bottom line, horse racing is driven by the betting industry and it's the money which talks - as far as that side of it is concerned, the horses are just a commodity.

Please read and endorse ViceVersa's message.

nightowl

Can we please dispel the myth that racehorses are well cared for. They are not. They live a completely unnatural life, are confined in stables, fed an unnatural diet of high energy feeds which do not suit their digestive system, experience high stress situations, travelling constantly, and so on. Racing itself harnesses their fear response - they run on adrenaline in a herd of unfamiliar horses, at speeds they would only reach in their natural state when fleeing from danger. It is brutal, ugly, and inhumane. And that’s without even mentioning the number that are killed before entering training, or because they’re not good enough, or because of injuries in training or on the racetrack.

Flatracing is no better even if fewer are killed on the track. They are broken to ride at 18 months so they can race at 2, when their skeletons are not fully formed until 6 or 7. Mentally as well, they are babies. I have known a few ex racehorses who were completely broken. I suspect the rate of attrition is just as high if not higher than NH horses.

Humans have excelled over centuries at getting horses to do things they would rather not do. We have succeeded because they are the most willing animals - that’s why they have been taken down mines, ridden into war, pulled heavy loads, performed pointless tricks and generally done all sorts of things that mean nothing to them. They have always been our slaves and it’s time we treated them better.

Please read and endorse nightowl's message.

I'm with you on that, BlueBelle. I've been around horses all my life - I've been to racing yards and I've ridden ex racehorses. But I can no longer defend the likes of the Grand National. I've said this before and I will say it again - if jockeys were dying or suffering horrific injuries in the same numbers as the horses, can you imagine the outcry?
Yes, there are jockeys, owners and trainers who genuinely care for the horses and look after them well, but when it comes down to the bottom line, horse racing is driven by the betting industry and it's the money which talks - as far as that side of it is concerned, the horses are just a commodity.

Alliraunfortunately cruelty comes in many guises and the picture you show is visible cruelty, there is far more ‘invisible to the eye’ cruelty to both people and animals than just that

Horse racing is cruel and particularly the GrandNational is indefensibly cruel and is kept going by greed and anyone who ‘has an innocent little flutter ‘ is also guilty. Each little flutter is a whip on a poor horse and an encouragement to keep this ghastly race running.

I cannot understand how seemingly nice people can defend it.