Skewed priorities

The details of the grooming gangs are absolutely sickening. Opal is entirely right.

Aveline

I doubt all the women involved in Epstein's arrangements were victims. That Russian woman who flew over for Andrew MW was 26. Quite able to be a consenting adult in business for herself.

Doubting victims?

keepingquiet

I don't set too much store by what I read on social media.

I prefer arguments with facts and sound reasoning.

We can all learn something from this situation and I have my own experiences of working with young girls in a town where these things went on and our attempts to draw attention to them were not just ignored- we were got rid of!

Only months later did the truth begin to come out. One of the first places to hold an enquiry into this problem.

So I don't need lectures on the sort of communities where these things take place- I worked in one.

So no ignorance here.

However, labelling people as criminals simply due to their potential religious affiliations, their places of birth and the colour of their skin or the accents they speak with is only seeing a small part of the picture.

It just isn't helpful and maybe this is one of the reasons why so many criminals get away with treating young women and girls in this way?

I assure you, the grooming gangs inquiry is most definitely dealing with facts. It's a shame you're not prepared to avail yourself of them.

At what point did I "label people as criminals due to their place of birth"? I didn't. Again, I urge you to read the testimonies of the victims of the inquiry. I am labelling the majority of the perpetrators as Pakistani men - FACT.

It wasn’t just the Russian woman, a number of alleged encounters happened in London. AI Summary:

‘At least two specific women are alleged to have been sent by Jeffrey Epstein to the UK for encounters with Prince Andrew.
One of these, a Russian woman, was identified in 2010 emails as 26 years old, and Epstein told Andrew she was "trustworthy" and "beautiful".
A second woman, who is not British, alleged she had a sexual encounter with Andrew at the Royal Lodge in 2010 and was later given a tour of Buckingham Palace.
Other, separate allegations from 2001, made by Virginia Giuffre, claimed she was trafficked to London to have sex with Andrew.
Emails from September 2010 suggest a meeting where Epstein asked to bring three women to "add some life" to a dinner with Andrew at Buckingham Palace.

Of course. However, we must not also fall into the trap of claiming that the only criminals are a certain 'type' of person?
You said in a post above that people should be instructed in the laws and customs of the places where they are seeking asylum.
Couldn't this also apply to people who are born here?
Criminals don't care about laws- they only care about getting caught!
This is why so many criminals escaped to Spain years ago isn't it?
Are you suggesting that we send all asylum seekers to law school?

Aveline

I doubt all the women involved in Epstein's arrangements were victims. That Russian woman who flew over for Andrew MW was 26. Quite able to be a consenting adult in business for herself.

Not if she has been trafficked. Possible since she was a child.

However, labelling people as criminals simply due to their potential religious affiliations, their places of birth and the colour of their skin or the accents they speak with is only seeing a small part of the picture.

No-one is.

The point is, which you made earlier in a rather obscure way, was that no-one should be excused of such crimes by reason of race or religion or the fact that they may be a possibly traumatised asylum seeker from a different country and culture.

theworriedwell

Fallingstar

I believe that in the beginning Epstein used Ghislaine to scout out local schools to look for victims, targeting those who looked uncared for or alone. They don’t call him a pedophile for nothing.
Also older women can be groomed, coerced, and trafficked. I read that Ghislaine took the women’s passports away. There is no age at which a woman ceases to become a potential victim.
Also I seriously hope that police forces don’t just drop cases of girls being groomed by gangs in the UK because something else is in the headlines, I doubt that is how they operate, and I doubt that is how those in government addressing this operate either.
But those on here showing concern can raise the issue with their MP. I do this when dissatisfied with the response to a burning political issue.
Epstein is presently in the news because his nefarious activities have had repercussions for governments both sides of the pond, and I for one think it is imperative we know just how high the rot has gone.

The Russian woman must have had her passport to travel to UK.

Is she the same Russian woman who sent Epstein an email saying what a great night she had?

She’s obviously wasn’t talking about Andrew. Or she sets the bar very low.

I don't set too much store by what I read on social media.

I prefer arguments with facts and sound reasoning.

We can all learn something from this situation and I have my own experiences of working with young girls in a town where these things went on and our attempts to draw attention to them were not just ignored- we were got rid of!

Only months later did the truth begin to come out. One of the first places to hold an enquiry into this problem.

So I don't need lectures on the sort of communities where these things take place- I worked in one.

So no ignorance here.

However, labelling people as criminals simply due to their potential religious affiliations, their places of birth and the colour of their skin or the accents they speak with is only seeing a small part of the picture.

It just isn't helpful and maybe this is one of the reasons why so many criminals get away with treating young women and girls in this way?

BlueBelle

keepingquiet

The grooming of minors by sexual predators is not a racial or religious issue.

Thank God for a sensible reply Keepingquiet
Sexual predators have no special colour, no age group, no social status, no particular religion
They come in all shapes and sizes, as we know royalty and religious leaders are no different to the drunk down the road when it comes to being a sexual predator
Makes better journalism though, better stirring, better pointing the finger, better political ammunition.

Follow the grooming gang enquiry on Facebook, and then come back tomorrow and try saying the same thing. Open your eyes and ears. Ignorance must be bliss.

Worrying that the government are planning to delete vital court records concerning these grooming cases.

No, it is not a side issue. Unless the sole aim of raising the question about the government having skewed priorities was to target non gang related asylum seekers.

At the risk of repeating myself, we have men here who have committed the most appalling crimes against women and children. Every country will have them. We can imprison them, but would it be possible to deport them if ever they were to come out. No would be the answer as unfortunately they are British Citizens.

Into that mix of our own criminals, are those coming from abroad, supposedly fleeing here for sanctuary. Can we deport them when they commit a serious crime. We definitely should be able to because they are foreign nationals.

Therein lies the distinction. Two groups of vile men. The first group we can't get rid of because they're British, the second aren't, ergo they need to be sent back to wherever they came from.

The argument of "well anyway there are awful white men who do terrible things" is a side issue.

What also baffles me is migrants do not appear to receive any instruction of how they should behave and what's expected of them in our country.

Casdon

That isn’t an excuse. It’s a fact. On the same day as the Afghan raping the 12 year old, there was a British nursery worker who had raped and sexually assaulted a number of boys aged 2 and 3 at work, and a metropolitan police officer charged with five counts of violent rape which included wrapping a woman’s face in clingfilm. Just on one day in court.

That is an absolutely horrendous case but it is a separate issue.

It is about the safeguarding of our very youngest and most vulnerable in a place where they should be safe and whether any nursery worker should be ever alone with a child.

Again, bringing that truly dreadful case into this is a straw man argument.

"White British men are just as likely to be abusers of children"
And, of course, they should be brought to justice.

In any case the numerous incidents have shown complete disrespect, for children, teenagers and women generally and our laws, which some cynically tend to plead ignorance of, are not to be obeyed.
Whilst asylum seekers are awaiting decisions, which should be speeded up, should they not be instructed in the laws and culture of this country where they are seeking asylum? Taught about what is not acceptable or is against the law here?
Is it ignorance that leads them to attack like this, do they not realise they will be imprisoned if found guilty then deported?

I understand that Denmark keeps such information on the ethnicity of criminals which reveals some interesting statistics.

I agree. Those young girls still waiting to have justice!
As for the high profile men and women.
It’s all disgraceful behaviour and SICK!

That isn’t an excuse. It’s a fact. On the same day as the Afghan raping the 12 year old, there was a British nursery worker who had raped and sexually assaulted a number of boys aged 2 and 3 at work, and a metropolitan police officer charged with five counts of violent rape which included wrapping a woman’s face in clingfilm. Just on one day in court.

"White British men are just as likely to be abusers of children"

Why do people keep saying that, of course it's a fact no one is denying it, we have and will always have our own home grown sexual deviants and paedophiles. .

Are you not missing the point, do we need to add to their number? The guy that raped the 12 year old in the park, he'd been here about 4 months possibly it's the cultural view that a 12 year old is an adult, in their world. Here she is still a child. Add the perception to certain demographics, western women or even western children are fair game and up for anything. In any case the numerous incidents have shown complete disrespect, for children, teenagers and women generally and our laws, which some cynically tend to plead ignorance of, are not to be obeyed.

We know we know we know we know.

Any more excuses? Or straw man arguments forthcoming anyone?

I agree, but... All victims of abuse shouldn't be forgotten and certainly not the poor girls trafficked but those wealthy powerful men. Are you ignoring the victims there and concentrating on the men being talked about?

Plus to blame mass abuse on just one group is totally wrong, white British men are just as likely to be abusers of children and just ax likely to part of a paedophile ring.

People there are extremely worried to have 600 undocumented men who are free to roam around given what's been happening in other parts of the country.

Until someone has been granted asylum, why are they allowed to roam freely? I do not understand it. They should be confined until assessed and a decision is made. The whole process should be speeded up.

X post TerriBull

Exactly what Allira says, so I won’t repeat it.
There’s also another factor to throw into the mix… not about grooming gangs but asylum seekers who come here and in some cases weeks later sexually attack or outright rape girls, some as young as 12.Their culture allows it their defence says in court and they didn’t know it was wrong! Baloney of course but it is true that in many instances their own country says it’s wrong but does little or nothing to chase them down.
We will see far more sexual attacks in the months and years to come I believe.

Aveline

At least that Afghan boat person who raped the 12 year old was actually on the news today and not ignored for purposes of not offending ethnic sensitivities.

The 12 year old was in a park playground in Nuneaton, when the Afghan man lured her away. 12 years is an age where most are independent enough to take themselves off without an adult but possibly still quite naive about possible danger, to be expected, after all at 12 still a child, in a child related environment. There was another case of a 15 year old, separated from her friends, in a park, dragged into bushes and sexually assaulted by another 2 Afghan men. Begs the question if an individual/s is/are seeking asylum here, he/they weren't worried enough as to deportation, to not break the law in raping children. These are not isolated incidents.

I do know from a friend who lives in Crowborough, Sussex, a fairly modest sized town of around 11,000 residents. Army barracks have been repurposed for young male migrants. People there are extremely worried to have 600 undocumented men who are free to roam around given what's been happening in other parts of the country.