Is this fair?

No its not fair. The State Pension is not enough. £35k would be lovely. Whilst I appreciate there is child poverty out there and when the child benefit cap is raised it should be given in vouchers. From past working experience some families were getting more on benefits that I was for my full time job role. Some had the nice big tv, latest phones, false lashes, nails done every week and lip fillers. Some knew how to play the system. Many had "depression and anxiety," like many genuine people do, but some used this to their own advantage and really played the system. I appreciate there are some really genuine cases out there, I know I have worked with them, but the benefits system needs a complete overhaul and it should be more lucrative for people to work, not to stay at home

I keep reading that single mothers are rubbing their hands in delight and now planning more children.

GrannyGravy13

Tokerer reserve my wrath ? What a strange thing to say 🤷‍♀️

My posts on this thread haven’t been angry in any way.

I wholeheartedly support benefits for those who need them.

Tokerer reserve my wrath ? What a strange thing to say

Tokerer says we should reserve our wrath for tax avoiders which includes anyone who has an ISA, pays into a pension scheme, uses Salary Sacrifice etc, which means a large part of the population.
That's a lot of wrath.

Lathyrus3

68% of 8.3 million on Universal Credit.

That’s just over 5 million people who can live without having to work just on this benefit.

Which includes the disabled and those too unwell to work!

Jenken

I keep reading that single mothers are rubbing their hands in delight and now planning more children.

Really??? I was a single parent for 9 years, and worked full time.

Many of the Royal family ended up as lone parents, don’t diss single mums please!

Absolutely not. It stinks

When my children were small, early 80s, I had to work to provide us with a manageable income. A young lady in the same village had applied for a job where I worked.
My instant response was to offer her a free lift, simply because I was going and my salary would be more than her entry level. She would be giving up her 80% rate reduction, her rent paid, and benefit income, so working would give her an income of £5 pw more than currently.
This did not allow for new clothes, or any of the work social stuff like collections or the coffee club. It would take her away from her small children all day, and parcel them around friends and neighbours for the school run.
I advised her not to - would you?

No I think I would because it was a way back into work. There’s so much research about the benefits of work. It would add to her cv, her skills and open up gateways to career progression

Was there anyone working in the household? If not then for her children sake not working would be a bad idea.

This country is not bursting at rhe seams with young people, schools are closing because their numbers have fallen so low.
Rather it’s bursting at the seams with older people, most of whom don’t work and live off their state pension and benefits for many many years after retiring.

Beggars belief that so many on here think the biggest problem with the UK is the removal of the two child cap. Just been through 14 years of Tory mismanagement where even 5 prime ministers couldn’t improve things. We have this government in just over a year and people expect miracles.

I have worked all my life and have only two children by choice. Yes - there is an issue with people expanding their responsibilities beyond what they can afford. There is also an issue with multi millionaires avoiding paying taxes into the countries coffers. There is an issue too with the ‘sick note’ mentality. There is an issue with short sighted voters who forget just how misled they were into supporting Brexit and who the politicians were behind that madness.
This two child policy change is not the most worrying thing for me. Far more worrying is the fact that we have the rise of Fascism and the normalising of racism in our country. We have Reform feeding this daily and groups of idlers with no agenda other than to divide our communities.

Beggars belief that so many on here think the biggest problem with the UK is the removal of the two child cap.

The problem with Government finances is money lost through far too much inefficiency and wastage.

Rather it’s bursting at the seams with older people, most of whom don’t work and live off their state pension and benefits for many many years after retiring
Beggars belief that people think the problem with the country is far too many old folk, not working, drawing state pensions and benefits. A state pension is a benefit too btw.
Oh, and costing the NHS £millions, sorry £billions.
Perhaps something should be done about them, we've had our day and are neither use nor ornament apparently.

Dear Diary: Reminder to self - child care on Thursday and Friday this week.

I worked from age 17 - 62, then part time to 64. I’m pleased to still be here 12 years later.
I’m on school pick up, sleepover, school drop off for two grandchildren tomorrow.
I returned two plus their dog after a weekend, yesterday. Three of their parents self employed sonhiursvvariable. One in full time employment , away for three nights for work commitments

I’m with Stone of Destiny’s summary of Labour being blamed for the legacy of the Tory years

Flakesdayout

No its not fair. The State Pension is not enough. £35k would be lovely. Whilst I appreciate there is child poverty out there and when the child benefit cap is raised it should be given in vouchers. From past working experience some families were getting more on benefits that I was for my full time job role. Some had the nice big tv, latest phones, false lashes, nails done every week and lip fillers. Some knew how to play the system. Many had "depression and anxiety," like many genuine people do, but some used this to their own advantage and really played the system. I appreciate there are some really genuine cases out there, I know I have worked with them, but the benefits system needs a complete overhaul and it should be more lucrative for people to work, not to stay at home

I know I wonder about "depression and anxiety" when that is an official verdict. Reason being that many years ago (the 1970s) I had to find out how to get on the Council waiting list for housing (as I only knew how one buys a house and hadnt got the foggiest how to get on a housing waiting list).

After I'd binned the instant official advice I got of "Get pregnant maid" (eeeek!!!!! no chance) I hadn't got enough points to even get on it and my bedsit got re-measured and had mysteriously changed size to be even smaller and I still didn't have enough points and got told "There's two ways you can get some more and that will be just enough to get you onto being on a list for housing association property". One of those two ways was "Get your doctor to certify you as having 'Depression' illness and you will get two more points".

Being the 1970s (a VERY different climate to now) my response was "I can't do that!!!! Have Depression down on my medical records!!!! I'd suffer for that in other ways (eg problems getting jobs and there was a stigma generally to saying that)".

So I got told the other way to get those vital couple of extra points and I used that one instead (ie a letter from my employer saying it was vital that someone with my skills shouldnt be pushed to move out of my city by our housing prices being unaffordable for me) and that did the trick and stopped what I saw as discrimination against me for NOT having children.

There have always been those who 'milk' the system - that is the nature of a society where we support those who need it. If we are to continue to do that, then we need to accept that. Having said that, of course checks should be made, but the number of children should not be controlled by access to benefits - that's not fair on the children who did not ask to be born.

Imagine a family that are independently wealthy billionaires who also get financial support from less well off taxpayers. They have so much money that every child born into the family becomes instant millionaires. Imagine such a family with so much wealth that the actual amount is totally guarded from public eyes - even after death. You cannot even see their Wills despite everybody else’s Will being public. Imagine too having so much money and influence you can pay Twelve Million pounds to buy off a sexual exploitation complaint that you claim you were not responsible for. Imagine the same family having so many homes they can swap them amongst themselves and fill them with staff while the country they claim to serve continues to suffer a homelessness crisis. Then imagine how outraged you might be to find out the members of this family do not even pay the market rent for such properties and instead pay ‘peppercorn’ rents.

I think I would look to rectify this historic abuse of unearned privilege before getting so outraged at the two child benefit cap being lifted.

What a stupid comment, if you have nothing constructive to say - say nothing!

Well, it was not just a stupid comment, it was based on untruths, misconceptions and prejudice.

Glo33

What a stupid comment, if you have nothing constructive to say - say nothing!

Which particular comment did you have in mind?

What really is annoying me is the Pension credit fiasco. It's meant to top up the pension to the full level which I agree with. BUT those on it get so many other payment and concessions which add up to hundreds of pounds extra. Like rent, council tax, cost of living payments, free TV licence over 75, cheaper entry to many things, free dental treatment etc etc.
So if you worked all your life, had a small private pension you get nothing. My small private pension is £90 a month which takes us over the limit for pension credit while my friend is on pension credit and gets double what we get.
So very wrong

StoneofDestiny

Beggars belief that so many on here think the biggest problem with the UK is the removal of the two child cap. Just been through 14 years of Tory mismanagement where even 5 prime ministers couldn’t improve things. We have this government in just over a year and people expect miracles.

I have worked all my life and have only two children by choice. Yes - there is an issue with people expanding their responsibilities beyond what they can afford. There is also an issue with multi millionaires avoiding paying taxes into the countries coffers. There is an issue too with the ‘sick note’ mentality. There is an issue with short sighted voters who forget just how misled they were into supporting Brexit and who the politicians were behind that madness.
This two child policy change is not the most worrying thing for me. Far more worrying is the fact that we have the rise of Fascism and the normalising of racism in our country. We have Reform feeding this daily and groups of idlers with no agenda other than to divide our communities.

👏👏👏

FranP

When my children were small, early 80s, I had to work to provide us with a manageable income. A young lady in the same village had applied for a job where I worked.
My instant response was to offer her a free lift, simply because I was going and my salary would be more than her entry level. She would be giving up her 80% rate reduction, her rent paid, and benefit income, so working would give her an income of £5 pw more than currently.
This did not allow for new clothes, or any of the work social stuff like collections or the coffee club. It would take her away from her small children all day, and parcel them around friends and neighbours for the school run.
I advised her not to - would you?

Absolutely no! Work isn’t just about the salary paid, it opens the door of opportunity to many other things, including better well paid jobs in the future, self esteem, role model to children and adult company

Allira

Well, it was not just a stupid comment, it was based on untruths, misconceptions and prejudice.

Which comment??

When I posted this question I knew it would be contentious. This is Gransnet a forum for the over 50's so I was appalled to see so much I'll feeling towards pensioners and to find so few people able to have a reasoned debate about an important issue without getting on their 'soap boxes' and telling the rest of us how to think.
In the spirit of a previous poster here is a solution.
All third and subsequent children to be removed to be in doctrinated by whatever inept government happens to being power. Anyone with the temerity to reach their 70th birthday to be immediately transported to the nearest euthanasia unit!
Would that please everyone?

sazz1

What really is annoying me is the Pension credit fiasco. It's meant to top up the pension to the full level which I agree with. BUT those on it get so many other payment and concessions which add up to hundreds of pounds extra. Like rent, council tax, cost of living payments, free TV licence over 75, cheaper entry to many things, free dental treatment etc etc.
So if you worked all your life, had a small private pension you get nothing. My small private pension is £90 a month which takes us over the limit for pension credit while my friend is on pension credit and gets double what we get.
So very wrong

I wish re Pension Credit...but not eligible - because of small private pension.

Rent only applies if one is still (or again) in rented accommodation (though thank goodness I managed to get out of that sector and finally buy a place), free TV licence over 75 no longer applies I gather (I'm annoyed about that - as I'd already been mentally adding it into my income come the time)...but nope will still have to pay it.

Free dental treatment - only if you are one of the ones that has managed to have that rare breed - ie the NHS dentist. I had to drop having an NHS one about 15 years or so ago - as I could see which way the wind was blowing.

In some parts of the country one can tell the state of someone's finances the second they open their mouth - if they're middle-aged onwards. Where I am now - there are lots of people with bad teeth and I've been horrified by it - and that's because it's very difficult/nigh impossible to get an NHS dentist. So - thank goodness I've been used to the idea (darn it!) of a private one anyway - though I've had to "swop and change" several times until I found one equivalent to what I'm used to (ie "Of course the look of my teeth matters...of course I have the modern system for cleaning my teeth" that I'm used to).

There should though be a graduated cut-off scale - rather than abrupt cut-off point. It is upsetting to be on a lot less than national average salary (??think that's around £38,000 these days??) and I'm even not quite sure my combined pension income comes to National Minimum Wage level even - and I'm single. Would love to have national average salary level and the extra few thousand £s per year it costs to be single on top. I wouldnt actually know what to do with that (large) increase in income if I got it - but at least I'd have a fair income and would feel a lot better about the level it was.