A different kind of war? Cyber attacks to decimate economies?

I dread to think how much M&S are losing right now, just had an email telling me a number of items I ordered on line last week, Sparks offers, have been cancelled and any money will be credited back to my account. Replicate that by tens of thousands around the country

Finally home from Spain.

The renfe train line from Malaga to Fuengirola was not working when I left this morning.

Power is still intermittent in some areas/regions.

Yes, obviously with móur dependence on computers, e-mail, atms, mobile phones hacking cyber systems will work very nicely.

In Denmark we have been warned that it is wise to have at least three days' supply of food in the house, torches, batteries, a transistor that runs on batteries and some means of making warm food that do not depend on electricity or town gas.

I have all of the above, plus a reasonable supply of cash in the house, a wood-burning stove and fuel enough for next winter, old fashioned parrafin lamps and fuel for them.

I fill the kettle before going to bed and the cats' water bowl.

Much more than that we cannot do, can we?

The chaos in Spain is thought to be caused by the failure of the interconnect or that supplies power from France, which overloaded the rest of the grid, a similar situation happened in Eastern England when a large wind farm disconnected unexpectedly.

It is a timely reminder just how much we rely on electricity for everything we do, 10 yrs ago we had regular power cuts due to a local power line that was vulnerable to strong wind, that’s now been replaced, so we don’t get cuts.

Tried to post a warning but GN refused. Msg me if you want info

Aside from M and S, which I know nothing about, I think you are right that there will be/ is cyber warfare. It is a lot cheaper ,easier and more widespread than having to risk peoples’ lives fighting in the old way. China is very advanced in technology and so are some of the other countries not exactly ‘friendly’ towards the west. Not sure what can be done except keeping abreast of the ways and means and back up strategies.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Marks & Spencer shoppers face empty shelves as the retailer grapples with the fallout from a crippling cyber attack that has lasted more than a week.
Customers complained of finding “completely empty” shelves in M&S food halls, with items including bananas, fish and Colin the Caterpillar cakes out of stock.
In one shop, The Telegraph saw signs displayed on hot food counters saying they were “temporarily closed.” It said: “Due to technical issues, we aren’t able to offer these products at the moment. We’re working hard to resolve the problem and will have these items back in stock as quickly as possible.”
When asked, staff claimed the supply issues were linked to a cyber attack by a criminal gang that began before Easter and has already forced M&S to stop online orders.
A spokesman for M&S said the decision to take some of its systems temporarily offline had resulted in “pockets of limited availability in some stores”, adding: “We are working hard to get availability back to normal across the estate.”

Not quite what I witnessed in our big M&S this morning but whichever paper you were quoting from presumably doesn't believe in letting the facts get in the way of a good story

imaround

This was caused by vibrations in the line which interrupted the signals. It had absolutely nothing to do with there not being enough power being sent due to renewable.

"Due to extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain, there were anomalous oscillations in very high volatge lines, something called 'induced atmospheric vibration'. These osculations cause synchronization failures between the electrical systems. It's a complex phenomenon and there is a need to rebalance electricity flows internationally, it could take a week to fix"

www.forexlive.com/news/induced-atmospheric-vibration-was-the-cause-of-the-spanish-power-outage-20250428/

It's not the amount of renewable power being sent, it's the difference in the method of sending it.

Marks & Spencer shoppers face empty shelves as the retailer grapples with the fallout from a crippling cyber attack that has lasted more than a week.
Customers complained of finding “completely empty” shelves in M&S food halls, with items including bananas, fish and Colin the Caterpillar cakes out of stock.
In one shop, The Telegraph saw signs displayed on hot food counters saying they were “temporarily closed.” It said: “Due to technical issues, we aren’t able to offer these products at the moment. We’re working hard to resolve the problem and will have these items back in stock as quickly as possible.”
When asked, staff claimed the supply issues were linked to a cyber attack by a criminal gang that began before Easter and has already forced M&S to stop online orders.
A spokesman for M&S said the decision to take some of its systems temporarily offline had resulted in “pockets of limited availability in some stores”, adding: “We are working hard to get availability back to normal across the estate.”

This was caused by vibrations in the line which interrupted the signals. It had absolutely nothing to do with there not being enough power being sent due to renewable.

"Due to extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain, there were anomalous oscillations in very high volatge lines, something called 'induced atmospheric vibration'. These osculations cause synchronization failures between the electrical systems. It's a complex phenomenon and there is a need to rebalance electricity flows internationally, it could take a week to fix"

www.forexlive.com/news/induced-atmospheric-vibration-was-the-cause-of-the-spanish-power-outage-20250428/

8.47pm

“Spain digs out radios and maps as blackout brings modern life to a halt
We are back to old school methods, says Barcelona resident, as power cut hits Europe”

Six days ago, the media celebrated a significant milestone: Spain’s national grid operated entirely on renewable energy for the first time during a weekday. Not celebrating now though.
😮

Not all of the Malaga area has power restored, we are looking out from the terrace, and there are multiple dark areas

Brahumbug

Absolutely nothing to do with renewables, where did that from?

Spain' electricity, very recently, is being supplied solely by renewables, the transmission of renewable electricity is different from more traditional electricity transmission, investigators are looking into this difference as a possible cause.

I am just outside Malaga, our power and water (electrically pumped) went off around 12. It has just come on.

We had just stepped out of the lift in the pueblo when it went off 😱

FGT2 we have been watching the cable cars, thinking of those who were in them when the power went!

Absolutely nothing to do with renewables, where did that from?

Of course not.

There are many kinds of induced vibration: mechanically-induced, flow-induced, wind-induced, human-induced etc.

Anything that vibrates i.e. shakes for long enough will cause a breakage: something mechanical rattling in your car, strong water pressure in loose pipes, someone upstairs jumping/thumping on your ceiling.

In laypersons's terms, that's what's happened here. Induced atmospheric vibration is caused by corona discharge near electrical conductors. People might be more familar with the term St Elmo's Fire or blue light. It happens in humid, stormy conditions.

Broadly, I suspect this event will be attributed to extreme temperature variations in the interior of Spain. more to do with global warming and nothing whatsoever to do with cyber attacks. I am sure we will learn how it could have had such wide-reaching affects on the entire power network over the course of the coming days.

Sounds a bit strange to me.
The entire country? Where's the back-up system?
I would have thought they're used to dealing with fluctuating temperatures?

Beechnut

I didn’t say anything about the Dartford crossing.

No, I did if you read my post.

If it was "sudden and significant temperature variations" causing ""induced atmospheric vibration." which affected "the synchronisation of the electrical grid", then it is not automatically the fault of "unreliable renewables".

Were these renewables explicitly blamed and if so, which? Solar power? How much does Spain rely on that?? If they were the culprit, was it solar power variation or was the sunshine variation on the actual power lines too much for them to cope with?

I don't think we can indict "unreliable renewables" without more evidence.

Basically, unreliable renewables do not work at scale. Relying on them for national power networks is reckless in the extreme. I do not expect any mainstream politician to tell the truth about this crisis as it bucks their green agenda.

Portuguese grid operator REN reported that sudden and significant temperature variations in Spain's interior led to "anomalous oscillations" in high-voltage power lines—a phenomenon known as "induced atmospheric vibration." These oscillations disrupted the synchronisation of the electrical grid, resulting in cascading failures across the Iberian Peninsula.

No, me neither.

It’s a terrifying thought that we can be held hostage to cyber attacks of any kind and we so need to be ahead of the game.
As soon as I heard of the outages I feared it was terrorist cyber attacks. We are all vulnerable.

I didn’t say anything about the Dartford crossing.

Beechnut

The M4 and M48 bridges crossing the Severn are free to cross.

OK sorry, I didn't know that, but the Dartford crossing certainly isn't and the bulk of our food and other freight comes across the channel (through the tunnel) and then round the M25 using the Dartford crossing.