One in four children start school in nappies

Playgroups in the 70 s wouldn’t accept children in nappies. Luckily both of mine were toilet trained well before they were 2.
Those bulky towelling squares weren’t comfortable for them or nice to clean and wash for us and I was delighted to relegate the nappy bucket and the wooden spoon to the garden shed.

Cossy

Doodledog

Maybe one of the problems is that some children are starting school when they have only just turned 3 years old.
Really? Surely that is nursery or playgroup?

Not school, not reception, but they maybe full time in a nursery attached to a school so many may count this as a school

Yes, this is what I meant upthread. The journalist doesn't seem to know the difference between a nursery, a pre-reception class and a school.

To say that children are starting school still in nappies is not the same thing as saying nursery children, or even pre-reception ones are not toilet trained. Of course people who had children in the 60s wouldn't know any who went to school in nappies, because they were five years old. A nursery child who's just turned three is a very different kettle of fish.

That's interesting Galaxy. So you are aware more than most of the change in attitudes.

When my DC were starting school, no child would have been in nappies unless they had special educational needs, and if there was an accident it would have been dealt with quickly and no blame attached but you knew it wasn't part of the teacher's job.

Disgusting lazy parents make me sick!

I am aware of a nursery class who are using a similar system - requesting parents to come in and change their child, or offering reduced hours. I dont know of any reception classes with no TA ( I visit a number of schools per week) a number of receptions classes now need 2-3 TA 's because of the needs of children.

Doodledog

*Maybe one of the problems is that some children are starting school when they have only just turned 3 years old.*
Really? Surely that is nursery or playgroup?

Not school, not reception, but they maybe full time in a nursery attached to a school so many may count this as a school

Cabbie21

The BBC this morning featured a school/ area which required parents to come into school if their children needed to have their nappy/ clothes changed. Parents resented this, of course.

The point was made about appropriate use of teachers’ time versus negligence of leaving a child in soiled clothing.

Of course, teachers are not allowed to blame poor parenting.

Someone from a children’s charity naturally favoured the child’s angle and said their clothing should be changed and parents should not be blamed for poor parenting.

I have no idea about statistics but it was evidently a serious enough problem in this school.

Leaving aside children with medical problems or special needs who are a separate situation, a difficulty arises if there are no TAs employed or if they are occupied with a particular child. Can a teacher leave 29 children unsupervised in order to take one child to the toilet?
Is it unreasonable to expect children to be clean and dry before starting school?

Lots of infants toilets are adjacent or even in the back of classrooms and most classes will also have an adult LSA

Harris27

I’ve got four in nappies in pre school room at nursery. Yes they are starting school in nappies three if my children went in September in them. So it’s ok to change nappies in a nursery setting but not as a teacher?🤔

Although pre-reading skills and arithmetic are often taught informally at pre-school, fluent reading and mathematics are taught more formally in infant school. The progress of the pupils is carefully monitored and assessed and the teacher is held responsible for maintaining standards in numeracy and literacy.

Time spent attending to incontinent pupils is time away from teaching essential skills. Teachers are not primarily child minders.

The BBC this morning featured a school/ area which required parents to come into school if their children needed to have their nappy/ clothes changed. Parents resented this, of course.

The point was made about appropriate use of teachers’ time versus negligence of leaving a child in soiled clothing.

Of course, teachers are not allowed to blame poor parenting.

Someone from a children’s charity naturally favoured the child’s angle and said their clothing should be changed and parents should not be blamed for poor parenting.

I have no idea about statistics but it was evidently a serious enough problem in this school.

Leaving aside children with medical problems or special needs who are a separate situation, a difficulty arises if there are no TAs employed or if they are occupied with a particular child. Can a teacher leave 29 children unsupervised in order to take one child to the toilet?
Is it unreasonable to expect children to be clean and dry before starting school?

I was surprised to see carpets in the reception class but was assured by the janitor that he had a machine to deal with everything from paint to poop!
This was not a nursery and will have been 30 years ago.

Harris27

I’ve got four in nappies in pre school room at nursery. Yes they are starting school in nappies three if my children went in September in them. So it’s ok to change nappies in a nursery setting but not as a teacher?🤔

Yes, of course - it's completely different. Nursery staff are paid for childcare, which is not the same as teaching. Schoolchildren are there to learn, and needn't go to school until they are five (even though they are allowed places in the term before), so it's perfectly reasonable for schools to refuse to take under fives who are not toilet trained.

Teachers have to stay with the class even if they need to use the loo themselves, so who is supposed to change children who regularly soil themselves? It's not part of a teacher's job, but it is for a nursery nurse.

buggerlugs11

Maybe one of the problems is that some children are starting school when they have only just turned 3 years old. A child born in August hast to start school in september.
This is because there is only one in-take per year. It was not always like this. Children used to start school in the term in which they were to five years old. There is a big difference between a child who is nearly five and one who is only just four.

They have to be 4 before starting in reception.
However, my DGD was only a couple of days past her 4th birthday when she started school.

It is also useful to note there are different types of nurseries - nursery classes attached to the school (part of the early years unit) and run by a teacher, and private nurseries where staffing is different.
I would say the cohort in nursery classes and reception classes has changed completely in the last 10 years or so.

I don't think it's an Urban Myth but I'm not sure about the statistics.

Many years ago, probably over over 20, children were not allowed to start at a State school nursery without being toilet trained unless they had were children who had special needs.

Children were, of course, encouraged to use the little toilets and were helped and shown how to wash their hands (!) and there would be an occasional accident but the majority were trained.

That changed many years ago as it was deemed to be discriminatory.

One of my gd’s started nursery class at school aged almost 3, and was frightened of going in the toilet. Teacher said ‘just put knickers on her’ . She soon as she saw all the other children using the toilet, it only took a couple of days before she was happy to go herself.

I’ve got four in nappies in pre school room at nursery. Yes they are starting school in nappies three if my children went in September in them. So it’s ok to change nappies in a nursery setting but not as a teacher?🤔

www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c75w5dd63ddo

Doodledog totally

I think the 'problem' is more about lazy journalism than lazy parenting.

Sorry I meant when they are only just turned four.

My children were toilet trained as they learnt to walk I made sure because I knew the rules at the local school. Nursery started age 3 to ensure a place. I have often had new neighbours who moved in to our road ask about the school church doctors etc. I have listened to them complain they made enquires at the school and didn’t like the rules.
The other most talked about rule was being fined if the children were taken out of school for holidays. This was over thirty years ago and it did happen my children’s school was ahead of many at the time. I think a lot of parents don’t seem to appreciate their children their responsibility.

Where I live children go into reception at an infant school in the September when they are rising five. Which, of course, means that children born in August have only just turned four.

It has been quite common for people to refer to pre-school nursery as school and nursery staff as teachers for a long time. Princess Diana was described as a teacher by some newspapers.

Are we talking about pre-school or infant school reception?
The BBC article does not make this clear.

Thanks Indigo for the reference.
I couldn't find it.

I think it's less about congratulating ourselves for being perfect parents yeah right and more about condemning the current generation of feckless ne'er-do-wells. apart from our own

You are correct Doodledog
The terms of reference have changed.

My granddaughter started school last September aged 4 and 1 week!

She was more than ready for school and no children started in her class wearing nappies.

I do think some headlines are inflammatory not supplying all the facts and details.

Children are being toilet trained later now, possibly due to disposable nappies.

Our older two were in Terry nappies, there is far more incentive to toilet train!

I’ve thought the same as you. Both mine hated the cold, wet, heavy nappy and couldn’t wait to be potty trained! They made it easy for me - I was very lucky! (Sorry if that sounds smug, it’s not intended that way!)

This is because there is only one in-take per year. It was not always like this. Children used to start school in the term in which they were to five years old. There is a big difference between a child who is nearly five and one who is only just four.

Yes, this too.

Maybe one of the problems is that some children are starting school when they have only just turned 3 years old.
Really? Surely that is nursery or playgroup?