What to do without a pension?

Sorry to be obtuse but why would anyone who didn’t make any contributions believe they were due a pension?

paddyann - I did despite not paying NIC

Sorry, I do get SP

crazyH

I have never paid NIC. I worked for my husband’s (now Ex) practice and my salary was below the level at which NIC had to be paid.
Despite that, I get a SP, which is almost the same as the amount my friend gets, even though she worked full-time for 20years.
I was told that my SP was based on my ex-husband’s contributions . It seems rather unfair,

It really is unfair, and I appreciate your recognition of that.

A pension is payment for working for years, to recognise that you can no longer do so. It is not a payment for simply reaching a designated age, and neither should it be. Why should people who have worked for decades subsidise those who have not?

The more the pension age is pushed back the more annoyed I get at the idea that those who work should pay for others to stay at home.

Are you not entitled to a pension from whatever overseas country you worked in for 10 years, Appleseeds? DH and I were told when we worked abroad for just two years that the contributions made there would transfer to our UK pension, but that wasn’t the case. Those years showed on our Government Gateway accounts as our having paid no contributions. Then when I claimed my pension online I answered a question about whether I’d ever worked abroad, and was sent an application form by our Pension Service which they then sent off to Berlin on our behalf. To our surprise, after a bit more form-filling we were each awarded a German pension, very small but worth more than the two years of contributions to the UK system would have been. As I understood it from the reams of paperwork we received, we could also have claimed the German version of Pension Credit if our total incomes from all sources had been under a certain amount.

NotAGran55

Appleseeds if you were earning up to £1000 per month you would have been paying NI surely, and have credits towards a pension?
I think the current lower earnings limit is £120.

It's not every employer who pays NI when they make deductions and I didn't know initially that being self-employed and paying tax doesn't include NI contributions.

paddyann54

Sorry to be obtuse but why would anyone who didn’t make any contributions believe they were due a pension?

Yes, that's why I think it's important to make everyone aware of this. Not every person works for an employer all their life and some might contribute through voluntary works etc. I didn't realise at all that I had to pay contributions--I thought that paying tax included them.

Maggiemaybe

Are you not entitled to a pension from whatever overseas country you worked in for 10 years, Appleseeds? DH and I were told when we worked abroad for just two years that the contributions made there would transfer to our UK pension, but that wasn’t the case. Those years showed on our Government Gateway accounts as our having paid no contributions. Then when I claimed my pension online I answered a question about whether I’d ever worked abroad, and was sent an application form by our Pension Service which they then sent off to Berlin on our behalf. To our surprise, after a bit more form-filling we were each awarded a German pension, very small but worth more than the two years of contributions to the UK system would have been. As I understood it from the reams of paperwork we received, we could also have claimed the German version of Pension Credit if our total incomes from all sources had been under a certain amount.

I worked in a few different countries and have only received notification from one of them. The amount I am entitled to there is very small (less than 500 pounds) and certainly doesn't equal what I would have contributed with. It's so long ago, like another world. I'm going to have to check all of this. Now I know how naive I was.

Appleseeds

paddyann54

Sorry to be obtuse but why would anyone who didn’t make any contributions believe they were due a pension?

Yes, that's why I think it's important to make everyone aware of this. Not every person works for an employer all their life and some might contribute through voluntary works etc. I didn't realise at all that I had to pay contributions--I thought that paying tax included them.

We had a National Insurance cards when we started work years ago and it was stamped with our monthly contributions.

If you were self employed Appleseeds you would pay NI through your self assessment at the same time as your tax.

This must have come to light during the last 25 years?

Also if you knew that your employer wasn’t submitting your NI contributions why didn’t you report it?

Appleseeds

Allira

Not NUPI!!

NI sorry.

I did receive jobseekers allowance for a while but that doesn't pay NI contributions (people should really be told that fact).

Currently, those on Jobseekers' Allowance do get NI credits: www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits/eligibility

Appleseed - I have posted this for clarity, so anyone this affects is not alarmed.

I am sorry to hear that a combination of unusual circumstances and some naivety on your part means that you are now in a difficult situation. I think you are best to seek help from a specialist organisation: Citizens' Advice Bureau, Turn2Us & AgeUK spring to mind. I hope they can help you sort out what you are entitled to and what help you can get.

Pay slips should itemise how much tax and NI contributions were made.

Do you have your pay slips for the last 25 years?

Appleseeds

NotAGran55

Appleseeds if you were earning up to £1000 per month you would have been paying NI surely, and have credits towards a pension?
I think the current lower earnings limit is £120.

It's not every employer who pays NI when they make deductions and I didn't know initially that being self-employed and paying tax doesn't include NI contributions.

Sorry, just realised you were self-employed.

NotAGran55

If you were self employed Appleseeds you would pay NI through your self assessment at the same time as your tax.

This must have come to light during the last 25 years?

Also if you knew that your employer wasn’t submitting your NI contributions why didn’t you report it?

I only started working in a self-employed way about 8 months ago. That is how I began realising my situation. Before that I was on Universal Credit because of my health condition (and still am) but because I could earn around 1000 per month I received no money. I did not know that being on UC I had to pay NI separately. No one told me that. Some years ago I was on Job Seekers Allowance. It seems that JSA did pay NI for me. Those 2 years are okay.

I didn't know either that some employers did not submit contributions on my behalf. Must they? Is it a legal requirement, even if one works part-time or on a zero hours contract?

LOUISA1523

You will get pension credit....which is almost the same as state pension.. .in that you will get housing benefit, council tax benefit and you will also get the winter fuel allowance, free dentist and optician ( assuming your savings are now below the cut off)

That is a very good point! Savings. If you have more than a certain amount of savings you might not be entitled to any of the "means tested" benefits like pension credit. Definitely do this via CAB as others have suggested - they are very good. I can't remember if it's £16,000 savings limit or less now.

crazyH

I have never paid NIC. I worked for my husband’s (now Ex) practice and my salary was below the level at which NIC had to be paid.
Despite that, I get a SP, which is almost the same as the amount my friend gets, even though she worked full-time for 20years.
I was told that my SP was based on my ex-husband’s contributions . It seems rather unfair,

You've reminded me that the worst thing about getting my state pension was filling in the form they sent me! In it they asked for my former (ex) husband's details as well. I knew damn well it would not make any difference as I had my own full contributions, and I had obliterated the man from my head for 20 years. Yet suddenly I had to put all his details on a form and dig out a divorce certificate (because I couldn't actually remember the date of the divorce any more).

It was a standard form but I felt like writing on that bit - "not appropriate - have my own NI contributions - don't know if he's still alive anyway" LOL

Seriously though, it brought back bad memories and made me feel very off for a few days. Ugh.

I have been self employed since I was 22 I opted to pay NI on the PAYE system then and continued until I retired I had 51 Years of paying NI because the age was changed to 66 and some months and I left school 3 months before my 15 th birthday Waspis are made out to be grabby because we complained about losing those years and STILL paying NI until retiring We calculated we lost @ £52 k I’m lucky we have a decent income but a hell of a lot of Waspi women needed that income and had planned for their future to include it,
Seems we shouldn,t have bothered you can get a full pension with NO contributions…who knew?

Also those of us older pensioners who didn't manage to pay the full 39 (or more) years of contributions (44+ for men) only get a proportion of the State Pension.
If you started work aged 21 and then retirement was compulsory at 60 that just equates to the exact 39 years required for a full State Pension.

I'm a Waspi too :-) Started paying NI when I was 16 and retired at 66. Those last 6 years were tough. When you've expected to retire at 60 all your life.

Pension credit should not make those who haven’t contributed get more than those who have!

That is so unfair and makes me so angry unless the claimants have been unable to work, but in that case most people are (rightly) covered by the system paying in for them. I don’t want to see anyone do without but everyone who has worked in her own right should be better off than anyone who hasn’t. Avoiding paying contributions shouldn’t be an option (although I recognise that some shady employers find ways around that which disadvantage employees).

Do you have a pension based abroad you can claim? Many people on this site are very anti paying for ‘foreigners’ who expect benefits from the UK without contributing to them, and I might agree with that depending on your circumstances, but if so you should definitely claim it.

What I would also suggest is that you look into schemes aimed at members of your profession to see if there are any charitable foundations that look after people in your situation. I contribute to one that supports women who worked in my profession but are left without enough contributions to get a state pension - it can be a sector where it is easy to fall through the cracks by not having continuous employment even when working for many years. Start with the professional body website, and follow links from there.

Otherwise I sympathise but have no idea what you expected to happen when you didn’t contribute. Did you think that just being British would mean that every British (and non-British worker paying into our tax/NI scheme) would support you for the last 30 years or so of your life? I have a friend who thought that would apply. She moved to a European country on marriage, gave up working and then expected to come back to the UK at 60 and get a full pension. She is still resentful that she is not eligible.

Sorry if that isn’t what you wanted to hear but the UK has a cost of living crisis that means that many people who do pay into our welfare system are doing without.

I’ll admit it doesn’t take much to confuse me. But I thought pension credit was a top up for anyone who has a shortfall in their state pension. But according to this thread a person can claim pension credit even if they have zero state pension entitlement? 😳

Then this leads on to the accompanying benefits of winter fuel allowance, free NHS dentist( if you can find one) free spectacles, rent rebate, free council tax. All of which are denied to anyone whose sole income is their state pension.

My flabber is well and truly ghasted!

Then this leads on to the accompanying benefits of winter fuel allowance, free NHS dentist( if you can find one) free spectacles, rent rebate, free council tax. All of which are denied to anyone whose sole income is their state pension.

No British born citizen should be entirely without an income and destitute. Not while we have outcomers in comfy hotels. But they should not be better off on "pension credit" than people who saved for a small occupational pension, which some of them currently are. It just shows how utterly corrupt the system is.

Appleseeds

NotAGran55

If you were self employed Appleseeds you would pay NI through your self assessment at the same time as your tax.

This must have come to light during the last 25 years?

Also if you knew that your employer wasn’t submitting your NI contributions why didn’t you report it?

I only started working in a self-employed way about 8 months ago. That is how I began realising my situation. Before that I was on Universal Credit because of my health condition (and still am) but because I could earn around 1000 per month I received no money. I did not know that being on UC I had to pay NI separately. No one told me that. Some years ago I was on Job Seekers Allowance. It seems that JSA did pay NI for me. Those 2 years are okay.

I didn't know either that some employers did not submit contributions on my behalf. Must they? Is it a legal requirement, even if one works part-time or on a zero hours contract?

Your situation does seem very complicated, and as others have advised, Citizens Advice would be a good place to start to get help.

You must be very naive if you didn’t know that employers submit your NI deductions to HMRC along with your tax deductions. Regardless of the contract, provided you earn above the threshold you will pay.
Do you have your payslips or P45s from your employers to check back on?
If your contributions haven’t been handed over then your money has been stolen from you, and your employers were fraudulent.

This stuff really should be taught in school - although exact conditions will change over time, the general principle that you need to check your rights & responsibilities should be made clear.
In conversation with WASPI women, I have wondered how I knew about the change in pention age, contribution rules and changes in NI payments over the years I was employed. I realised that my parents taught me to keep myself informed and check my situation.

It is very sad, as appleseed could have been paying voluntary & self-employed NI over many years. It is correct that they will not be completely destitute, but will be reliant on benefits.

I have come across a few people like this before - they are often people who hold themselves apart from a system they either don't understand or think doesn't apply to them (I don't know where appleseed is in this). Over the years that appleseed acted as an unpaid carer, they have presumably saved the State a great deal of money, but it sounds as if it was completely off the grid, with no formal recognition at all. I think it would be almost impossible to claim in retrospect. Please appleseed, contact one of the organisations that can help you.