Our Welfare State. Is it broken?

The notion that the state cannot help people through life's 'ups and downs' may sound very fine, but not from the lips of politicians whose party has been responsible for so much of the 'downs', and the depths of them, for thousands of people.

George Osborne and austerity, together with Brexit lie behind so many of the redundancies that lie behind so much of the poverty.

Lack of investment in education lies behind our low-skilled workforce, and lack of investment in preventive health lies behind so much rumbling low grade ill health.

Truly this government has a nerve.

I’m sure you don’t mean to say that nobody who hasn’t lost a child knows what depression is, MissA.

I meant to say it, so that others will know how it feels to be judged from someone else's perspective.

It is an awful, terrible thing to say though, I know.
I feel rotten.

But, people don't stop to consider others' feelings.
People ride roughshod over others hurt and pain.

Will you have to take strong antidepressants for the rest of your life, do you know that eventually you will take your life and how and where you will do so, and think about it every day? That’s depression, without losing a child but brought on by having one no matter how dearly loved. I have no ‘reason’ to be depressed. But people always ask, seeing the smile (I am a good actress) what do you have to be depressed about? Even my husband of many years still asks that.

Yes, that is exactly the sort of thing I mean.

Both of us, presumably, find the idea of being housebound in case of encountering a button as ridiculous?
A bloody button, I ask you!
The ones with the four holes are the worst, apparently.

Ridiculous, but there is someone (probably many) whose lives are blighted by buttons.

Germanshepherdsmum

My own experience is that someone with depression - even severe depression - is much better off working than sitting at home. It should not be a condition which triggers an entitlement to benefits.

It is not a condition which is itself triggers entitlement to benefit.

Someone with depression who is already employed might well find that continuing to make the effort to go to work is helpful but much depends on the degree of the depression and whether there are any associated mental health issues.

Clinical depression (not a severe fed up ness) inevitably affects how someone performs their job. Jobs are so varied in nature I feel that it isn’t reasonable to apply a ‘one solution’ or ‘what worked for me’ to everyone because personal circumstances vary so much.

For anyone without a job, I’ve tended to find that employers aren’t that keen to take on a new employee with a history of clinical depression and/or anxiety.

Whilst I find it ridiculous, I understand that some people do have such problems. I would hope there is some sort of treatment for it, as there is for other phobias. I was surprised to read that he has a wife - that woman is a saint. If he were my husband I would be serving a life sentence.

Every time I read comments about claiming welfare benefits because of illness, particularly anxiety and depression I come across the same phrases……Something along the lines of “ you’ll feel better if you return to work” / “you’ll be better off if you go back to work” as though there is an actual job there waiting for you.
Am I alone in thinking that in the competitive job market with young, healthy, biddable applicants in steady supply, that someone who has not been to work for decades perhaps, will not manage to get to interview stage let alone be offered a job (necessarily with training) and without actual proper help as apposed to the plastic attempts that countless governments have spent fortunes on.

Quite so, Granmarderby10. Very many people are out of work because of redundancy. If the workforce is shrinking yhere are likely to be fewer jobs for them.

I had no break from work due to illness and always came clean about my health issues when changing law firms.

Someone who has been out of work ‘for decades’ is I think unlikely to find work much above minimum wage level except in exceptional circumstances. But if you suffer from mental health issues any work is better than just sitting at home living on benefits. Work gets people out of the home, enables them to mix with others and gives self esteem.

Oh I so agree GSM, but that is one giant leap. I mean going from being unable to decide whether to get washed, dressed, eat, cook, clean, shop and in what order those should be done let alone whether it even matters to anyone including one’s self, particularly oneself,
to then being “smiley happy customer facing retail assistant” eg

One of the problems is that wages are so low that many people need means-tested benefit top-ups that leave them dependent and unable to increase hours or wages without penalty.

There are also poverty traps surrounding pensions, so that someone with a small private pension is excluded from benefits claimed by those without, and disincentives for working people who find themselves unable to access free entry to events and other things as they aren't on benefits. Childcare is ridiculously expensive, as are rents, so people see no point in working full time - if they do they will lose benefit and basically work to be out of pocket.

All this comes at a cost to the taxpayer, and reduces the number of people who are 'economically active'. It also means that the State is subsidising the profits of the employers who pay so little that people need benefits to survive. That needs to be sorted out.

One persons depression is going to be very different from someone else's.
Its daft to lump them all together with a "fix".

I met a woman years ago who had been reduced to a permanent, childlike state by post partum psychosis.

I couldnt believe what I was seeing.
She was shuffling around the house carrying a teddy, while her husband looked after their three year old child.

I asked after her a few months back, and was told she is now in residential care.

Doodledog

One of the problems is that wages are so low that many people need means-tested benefit top-ups that leave them dependent and unable to increase hours or wages without penalty.

There are also poverty traps surrounding pensions, so that someone with a small private pension is excluded from benefits claimed by those without, and disincentives for working people who find themselves unable to access free entry to events and other things as they aren't on benefits. Childcare is ridiculously expensive, as are rents, so people see no point in working full time - if they do they will lose benefit and basically work to be out of pocket.

All this comes at a cost to the taxpayer, and reduces the number of people who are 'economically active'. It also means that the State is subsidising the profits of the employers who pay so little that people need benefits to survive. That needs to be sorted out.

Yes

Granmarderby10

Oh I so agree GSM, but that is one giant leap. I mean going from being unable to decide whether to get washed, dressed, eat, cook, clean, shop and in what order those should be done let alone whether it even matters to anyone including one’s self, particularly oneself,
to then being “smiley happy customer facing retail assistant” eg

If you have a job to go to you have an obligation to get up, get washed and dressed. Been there, done that. And shopping, cooking and cleaning come after that, so you and any family stay alive.

What if you live alone with NO such obligations and don’t speak to anyone from one day to the next, and don’t open mail, or answer the phone for the sheer dread of what is in store for you?

I thought we were talking about getting a job and the consequent obligation to get up and do it?

Seems it was just you, gsm.
It's a meandering kind of day in the forum, I think.

Some similar threads, and wandery chats.

I have seen people say that their dog has saved their life, in terms of depression.

Of course, during an assessment for the dwp it is used to show that you can look after, plan, and carry out all that is necessary to own a pet.

Whether that's good or bad, I wouldn't know.

For me, I'd love a cat (or a monkey, or tapir) but I worry in case I'm unable to care for it properly.

Miss Adventure, my late DH always had a penchant for a tapir. He had a fascination with them and we'd periodically visit the local wildlife park to see them. You brought a smile to my face by mentioning them.

A man of impeccable taste, then.
Tapirs are lovely.

I think they're very underrated.

None of the candidates in our local election have bothered to answer my questions on Pension triple lock, social care and the allowance you can keep if you need to pay £6,000 month for care ....is now £23,000 but there is campaign to increase this to £100,000 ....people with NO savings receive care free ...indeed someone just took their local council to Court after they asked the family to pay for their mother's care as her money had run out ...they asked for a Freedom on Information Act declaration ...........no reply, but suddenly they found they did not have to pay ! other residents who had spent any money they had prior to needing care, were being subsidised by those paying ....so unfair ! ANDA there is not one candidate who supports Dignity in Dying ....what is the point in voting !!!!!!

MissAdventure

A man of impeccable taste, then.
Tapirs are lovely.

I think they're very underrated.

Let's make that our slogan, "tapirs are very underrated".

Yes, let's do it!

ALANaV

None of the candidates in our local election have bothered to answer my questions on Pension triple lock, social care and the allowance you can keep if you need to pay £6,000 month for care ....is now £23,000 but there is campaign to increase this to £100,000 ....people with NO savings receive care free ...indeed someone just took their local council to Court after they asked the family to pay for their mother's care as her money had run out ...they asked for a Freedom on Information Act declaration ...........no reply, but suddenly they found they did not have to pay ! other residents who had spent any money they had prior to needing care, were being subsidised by those paying ....so unfair ! ANDA there is not one candidate who supports Dignity in Dying ....what is the point in voting !!!!!!

Whilst I agree with you about the unfairness of the social care system (and means-testing in general) not voting will not improve it.