Corbyn now Angela Rayner another reason not to vote Labour 🤔

Callistemon I think she’d be the last person to cave into pressure unlike most of the lily livers who would do or say anything to stay in favour and suck any toes to stay in position

Even when she is just plain wrong?

That is worrying.

I much prefer Jess Phillips

Anniebach

Much inverted snobbery

Where is the inverted snobbery, please Ab?

25Avalon

DaisyAnneReturns at the moment our so called democracy sees all sorts of actions that the electorate did not vote for and I cannot see a Labour government being much different from the current lot. MPs on the whole are made to obey the party line. I don’t think it’s all about me. I think it’s become all about them, as do a lot of the electorate who don’t even vote as they feel disenchanted and disenfranchised.

You need to read Ian Dunt's book, Avalon. How Westminster Works, and why it doesn't.

Governments legislate because they can. Because there is absolutely no effective mechanism of control over them, except, surprisingly, the House of Lords, which can delay legislation not related to manifesto policy. Ministers want to make their mark on the area they're assigned to, with a view to further promotion and with a big majority they can do what they like. It's very frightening.

Iam64

DAR I hope your post stands.
There are some posts here that are offensive yours isn’t one

Thank you Iam.

Much inverted snobbery

I agree and this last government has been a case in point Maisie.

Hopefully, we will move towards PR. I'd like us to move towards Citizens Juries too and possibly the occasional (well constructed) referendum. Although I haven't completely made my mind about the latter.

Citizens Juries would certainly give us more information about the subject we're asked to make a decision on. PR would spread the numbers, of those roughly in agreement, more fairly and at least putting into law the conditions under which referendum should be held, would ensure, hopefully, that any held were as democratic as possible.

But then, I suppose democracy is ever evolving .

Brilliant Maggiemaybe I think she’s an inspiration and although I come from no where near the north good for the country to have a straight talking intelligent northern girl

Callistemon I think she’d be the last person to cave into pressure unlike most of the lily livers who would do or say anything to stay in favour and suck any toes to stay in position
She shows up as being true to herself and her roots just what we need I would have thought
And anyone who looks down on her for her accent her outspokenness her having a pint is just a plain old snob

DaisyAnneReturns at the moment our so called democracy sees all sorts of actions that the electorate did not vote for and I cannot see a Labour government being much different from the current lot. MPs on the whole are made to obey the party line. I don’t think it’s all about me. I think it’s become all about them, as do a lot of the electorate who don’t even vote as they feel disenchanted and disenfranchised.

DAR I hope your post stands.
There are some posts here that are offensive yours isn’t one

DaisyAnneReturns

25Avalon

I don’t want anyone not of current politicians anyway. Labour will be not much if any better than the Tories. So many acts of parliament that the majority of people don’t agree with but they are forced on us anyway by the party in power claiming a mandate. We voted somebody in but a whole package comes with it that we didn’t vote for.

Of course it does. Otherwise you would need a party for each person. I do believe some posters actually think that is what they are entitled to. Democracy doesn't work that way, communities don't work that way and countries cannot work that way.

In the end you have to chose the party travelling roughly in the direction you want the country to go in and stop thinking its all about you. It isn't. You are no more, or less, important than anyone else. Democracy is about all of us.

While I agree with you to a certain extent, DAR, in that no one person's individual wishes have to be consulted, I think that voters have cause for complaint if the party they voted into power start to legislate in areas which weren't in their election manifesto.

But then, how many voters read party manifestos?

if of

If you sit in the middle if politics, on a politics thread, Maremia, twice as many people are likely to feel that being contradicted is a reportable offence.

And there it is again, a 'DAR' post being reported!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Quotes a deleted post.

25Avalon

I don’t want anyone not of current politicians anyway. Labour will be not much if any better than the Tories. So many acts of parliament that the majority of people don’t agree with but they are forced on us anyway by the party in power claiming a mandate. We voted somebody in but a whole package comes with it that we didn’t vote for.

Of course it does. Otherwise you would need a party for each person. I do believe some posters actually think that is what they are entitled to. Democracy doesn't work that way, communities don't work that way and countries cannot work that way.

In the end you have to chose the party travelling roughly in the direction you want the country to go in and stop thinking its all about you. It isn't. You are no more, or less, important than anyone else. Democracy is about all of us.

How very insulting DAR. I have reported your post,

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Andre Jenkyns , an Education Minister, was the M. P. who gave a finger to the press.

At least it would mean we had a Labour government!

And the inverted snobbery here is shaming too.

snobbery, sorry.

No one is expressing disgust for education, but rather trying to point out to the blinkered that education can and does come in different forms.I went to university in the 50's ,but think thatI have learnt a lot more just by living through the following years.My degree however does not make me a better person than the next.I do not think that anyone has the right to sneer and look down on someone because they did not have the same chances.I remember being told by a friend who was doing teaching practice in a school for children with severe learning difficulties that the staff had taken several years to teach one child how to knit . That child's success is , in my eyes a tremendous achievement , as good as success in NVQ's for others.
The sobbery on here is shaming and I can only hope this attitude is not passed on to the next generations.

I agree Avalon.
I don’t know what to vote at the next election. I have voted all three parties in the past but have settled, as I got older, to be more on the right. However they don’t deserve my vote this time around and neither do Labour. What to do?

I don’t want anyone not of current politicians anyway. Labour will be not much if any better than the Tories. So many acts of parliament that the majority of people don’t agree with but they are forced on us anyway by the party in power claiming a mandate. We voted somebody in but a whole package comes with it that we didn’t vote for.

Germanshepherdsmum

I cannot believe how many think that she would not be an embarrassment as deputy PM. Uncouth and uneducated. Appalling.

Uneducated. Who does that actually include?

Whether your education ends at school, college, university or further, it is a life-long process. It should always contain a modification of behaviour and experience gained from understanding and hopefully experiencing other ways of thinking and living. There are some on this forum whose veracity I have doubted when they've described their education because all they seem to have obtained are systematic and predetermined facts.

Some complete their formal education believing they know everything. The wise come out of their formal education knowing they know a fair bit about their subject, a little bit about how to learn, and very little about anything else. They are the ones who decide to continue learning for the rest of their lives.

I would put Angela Rayner in the second category. Far ahead of many of those who think themselves superior to her.