What is a lesbian?

Given my own sexuality, it's not unusual that I am likely to meet these people throughout life really is it? Because of the places I have socialized or events I have attended

None of them care what you think, they are happy and while they do face bullying and discrimination, it only makes them more determined to live happy fulfilled lives and grateful they don't carry the burden of living in judgement over others

Mollygo

You always have friends acquaintances and now people you follow on SM which supports whatever you want to say VS. This list is nothing new.

You have to ask yourself what they get out of parading their sexuality on social media.

A trans couple who openly state they used to be gay men and are now lesbians.

As gay men, they were truthful. Since they remain male saying they are lesbians is yet another male lie.

They can say what they want, if it hurts nobody. I’m only interested when it means males forcing their requirements on females as in the OP.

That sounds very judgemental.
How is deciding to transition untruthful?

So if a male was disrupting the event it is actually nothing to do with transwomen. Which raises the point why use that as a reason to stop transwomen attending.

What we have learned so far
Gay men who transitioned are liars
Only natal women who have relationships with other natal women can be designated lesbians
Honestly believing in inclusivity is so much easier.
How many more restrictions on people are going to be necessary?

You always have friends acquaintances and now people you follow on SM which supports whatever you want to say VS. This list is nothing new.

You have to ask yourself what they get out of parading their sexuality on social media.

A trans couple who openly state they used to be gay men and are now lesbians.

As gay men, they were truthful. Since they remain male saying they are lesbians is yet another male lie.

They can say what they want, if it hurts nobody. I’m only interested when it means males forcing their requirements on females as in the OP.

Here are 3 examples of couples I follow on tiktok

A trans couple who openly state they used to be gay men and are now lesbians

A lesbian couple who openly state one of them is a trans woman

A couple who openly state they used to be heterosexual but one transitioned and now they are lesbians and happier than ever

Which to me shows 2 things

1. love is love

2. The T belongs with LGB

Also that there never needs to be a separation because in fact, many lesbians can and do date trans women and they remain lesbians attracted to femininity which, we are all entitled to present as and we are all entitled to be attracted to masculine appearing men or women or vice versa

It is pathetic that the only way some can support their own ideas is by posting things I have never said.
Can you point us to where that has happened please? It is impossible to know whether we agree with you or not when you post in such a vague manner.

Fleurpepper, Glorianny is doing exactly what she accuses others of doing.

Obviously there are trans women couples as well

Lots of them happily share their stories on tiktok, if you simply type in trans lesbian couples you will meet some extraordinarily lovely people who are also, it had to be said, quite annoyingly beautiful and make me feel a bit plain

There are quite a few lesbians in relationships with trans women with both identifying as lesbians.

It's often depicted on TV too because it is relatively common

Those women see each other as women and I don't think it is really right to try to force beliefs on them

We wouldn't allow Christians to tell lesbians they are going to hell so why would we allow anyone else to tell them they aren't lesbians when they have never had a relationship with a man... Only women or trans women

No Fleurpepper, they're not.

Some are.

I haven't see GN's do what you've accused Glorianny. Time and time again, thread after thread, it's said when such examples are given, that these are in the minority.

I disagree that the image of a trans woman in lycra emphasising the wearers male genitalia was transphobic. The image showed how that particular trans woman presented themselves which in all probability, trans women would have found offensive.

The damage that such an image may do to the trans community is the responsibility of that individual.

The reason for not wanting trans women at a lesbian speed dating event is because they are not lesbians.

Mollygo

So what Glorianny is saying (and it is exactly what I would expect) is that it is OK to disrupt any event if the person doing the disrupting meets with her approval.

You always manage to get it just right Glorianny. A perfect description of what you keep saying.

NO this is NOT at all what she is saying.

I don' believe private events should be disrupted by anyone, but nor do I believe a celebration of inclusivity should be disrupted by someone who opposes inclusivity. That would include theos who oppose transrights like the LGB alliance, and those who believe in gay erasure or conversion therapy. None of thse people want to celebrate inclusion.
It is pathetic that the only way some can support their own ideas is by posting things I have never said.

But let's return to the original concept.
The organiser sadly tried to achieve something using unacceptable methods, which is why she has been called transphobic.
Had she merely asked for ,or arranged an event without transwomen she would have been legally entitled to. However in the course of doing this she used two images which are unacceptable to the transcommunity, one the person in lycra and the other an assault by a transwoman in the loo. (And yes I know they were both real). She used the worse stereotypes to justify her request, so indicating that this is how transwomen generally behave. It was transphobic to do so.

If you don't understand why, consider racism in the US southern states. Black men were consistently designated as raping or wanting to rape white women. Now a few might have done so, but using that as a characteristic of all black men was racist,because not all black men are rapists.
Using the image of a transwoman in lycra as a reason to ban all transwomen is transphobic

We don't permit the depiction of harmful stereotypes which damage minorities to be considered as typical of that minority, with other minorities. Why should it be permitted for transwomen? Sadly this women did so and so do many GNers.

So what Glorianny is saying (and it is exactly what I would expect) is that it is OK to disrupt any event if the person doing the disrupting meets with her approval.

You always manage to get it just right Glorianny. A perfect description of what you keep saying.

The wriggling is getting embarrassing now.

You were wrong about what you thought I’d said. It happens. Just admit it and move on.

I said absolutely nothing about it being ok for anyone to disrupt anything (wasn’t it you who brought up protest as a good thing earlier?) so you’re wrong about that, too. Not your night, is it?

A Pride match isn't something which should ever turn "nasty". It's a celebration of differences The only reason it could do so is because people turn up who are intent on disrupting the celebration and condemning the LGBTQ+ community

The same thing you accuse the person who disrupted the lesbian event of doing.

So what you are saying (and it is exactly what I would expect) is that it is OK to disrupt any event if the person doing the disrupting meets with your approval.

So transphobics must be permitted to disrupt and trans people must simply put up with it.

The quote function isn’t working on my phone, but this reply is to Glorianny’s strange post about my hilarious comparison earlier.

Ah, I forgot your difficulties with analogies. It’s still not funny though.

Let me explain. A dating event and a children’s party are small scale events which are usually attended by a small number of people, and generally harmonious in nature. A march, on the other hand, can be made up of thousands of people, none of whom are invited, and can turn quite nasty. I was linking the dating event and the party, not the event or the party with the march, which would have been a very odd comparison, if not very funny. Is that clear enough?

It’s a good job you’re the only one laughing - that explanation would have killed an actual joke stone dead .

Glorianny

*Dodledog*The guidance of the Equality Act was updated in May2022, as always I abide by the law. So if it changes so do my views.

Can you give more information on that updating?
As far as I know, the Equality Act has not been changed.

Glorianny

Hang on! Wasn't there a lot of support for a man at a Pride rally who sported a T-shirt and hat that advertised an anti-trans organisation? Is that different? His views didn't match he organisers.
And earlier on this thread an advert which asked for transpeople and their allies t attend was loudly condemned (although it didn't ban anyone)
So the concept is anyone can attend any meeting as long as their ideas match yours?

A meeting specifically for dating is very different from a political meeting or a pride march.

The t-shirt and cap were of LGB Alliance which is not a hate group and should be something embraced by pride march organisers.

The behaviour of those gate crashing a children’s party is as unacceptable as males gatecrashing a lesbian event.
I asked if you would accept uninvited people at your children’s party and you did one of your famous laugh and wiggle acts to avoid answering.
Now you’re using it as an excuse for supporting males gatecrashing lesbian events.
Your support of males is at least consistent, if surprising in a female.

Thank you. It really is. I never ask questions, apart from the other day, about this thread, to one of them. I listen.

Yes, it is very confusing, so we shouldn't try and over-simplify.

Fleurpepper no I definitely wasn't implying I don't believe you. I was just observing that your experience of fully surgically altered transwomen isn't the norm for most people and I expect it would naturally colour your opinions. It has been shown that many members of the public, on finding out a transwoman will likely still have a fully intact male body, change their mind about them accessing women's single sex spaces. And that's apart from the ones who think a transwoman is a female who wants to live as though she is a man. It really is a very confused area.

Doodledog

There is a huge difference between a dating event and a march. Marches always attract opposers - it goes with the territory, and people are rarely invited to attend - they just turn up.

A small, specialist event such as a local dating night is completely different, and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. I clearly don’t share Glorianny’s habit of finding things like this ‘funny’ - I find the whole situation very depressing.

This was your comment on Wednesday Doodledog

Of course the organiser has a right to say which characteristics attendees should have. You don't organise a children's party and have to allow in teenagers, or a xylophone recital and expect trombonists

So on Wednesday speed dating can be compared to a children's party, But on Monday it can't be compared to a march

That's what is so funny!

Elegran

Fleurpepper

Galaxy

I was speaking to a number of my lesbian friends the other day, they were complaining about the absence of spaces without men. What does that prove FP.

Nothing- I am not trying to 'prove' anything at all- apart that there is a massive difference between those who have chosen to give up their masculinity, including violence and control- and have gone through the pain of full reversal- who no longer have a penis, and now have breasts and a vagina- and men who are choosing to push their sexuality onto others, physically, sexually, emotionally, and possibly with violence and control.

Simple (yes, i know, it's not).

I agree, but do you have any suggestions on how we can achieve the women-only spaces that are required, that let in your lovely friends but keep out the others? A certificate listing what they have gone through and confirming that they have no intention of pushing anyone into anything, which must be shown before they are admitted?

I don't think that would be practical - and it certainly would not be acceptable or legal. It would be embarrassing for your unassuming friends (who are probably undistinguishable from untrans people anyway, and have been so for years) and ignored by the trans activists.

No, I have no idea, honestly - but I am glad you agree about the huge difference.

Rosie51- yes I am fully aware, thank you. I hope your comment does not imply that you don't believe me? I have a 4th friend who is trans- and has not been through reversal as she left it too late. Very kind, soft, gentle, feminine- only wears women's clothes to go out at night- and feminine trousers and accessories with discreet make-up for every day. S/he would not dream of imposing anything on anyone. We have never ever discussed her sexuality actually.

I have no idea what is amusing you now, Glorianny.

If you can point us to the wriggling of the prejudiced, maybe someone can answer - as I keep saying, vague digs are impossible to answer, as we have no idea whether we agree with you or not.