should the government be ashamed

No government of any colour can afford to pay 19%.what is annoying is the continuous statement that pay will not be discussed.only an idiot would bury their head in the sand.I wonder when the subject of pay for mps arrives, what the recommendation will be ?

I think that Britain is a relatively poor country which is pretending to be rich- so says Matthew Lynn in the Telegraph. The article makes sober reading and sums up so much of the illusion of living in luxury while working less and less.

MPs aren't bothered about the strikes. They have the resources to live their lives without the railways, or the ambulance service. They don't rely on the NHS, and allowing it to sink further into decline will just make it easier to continue to privatise it.

If the past is anything to go by the Tories will bring the country and vulneable people to their knees then leave the next likely Labour givernment to pick up the mess - from which they will insist that the country’s economy is not safe in Labour hands - despite evidence to the contrary, given that the latter day Tory governments borrowed more during ’austerity’ than all Labour governments since the war. I had an intense dislike of Blaire/Brown but NHS waiting times were much reduced and pioneering ’Early Start’ policies wete of great benefit to children fron less fortunate families

Oh dear - vulnerable …government - a touch of ’allo ’allo!

I dont know how they can justify any pay rise at less than 10% when that is what they are giving to claimants on universal credit to keep up with inflation. Working people also need to keep pace with inflation. Getting to work regardless of what method you choose is not cheap.
The NHS had major problems long before they decided to strike and a lot of it is about patient's safety.
Not really safe for someone who has gone into hospital by ambulance, who in most cases needs emergency care, to then have to sit in that ambulance for sometimes 12 hrs or more receiving no emergency care and with no access to food, water or a toilet.
I recently left the NHS through ill health after doing nearly 20 yrs for them and the workload for the staff on the wards is not fair on staff or patients.
Think the NHS needs a complete overhaul to bring it into the 21st century. Not sure how that can be done

Train drivers are on strike. Also check online how much a train driver earns before agreeing that they need such a big pay rise. They earn way above the average salary. The majority of people in Britain would be more than happy with the salary if they knew. On the other hand ambulance staff are not paid anywhere near enough for the responsibility they have.

The nurses and the ambulance people should be ashamed of their own non-professional behaviour. The post office will have damaged the trade of so many businesses with the timing of this spiteful act, where people dare not trust ordering anything online in case it does not arrive before Christmas. The trains and other transport connected strikes will ruin Christmas for so many families who now cannot meet up. this is nothing to do with the government it is just unkind nasty behaviour from people who really should know better.

midgey

Any government that thinks twelve hour shifts are acceptable should be ashamed in my opinion. I don’t blame the strikers, I blame management and the government.

I couldn't agree more. My DIL is a nurse and those 12 hr shifts are wearing her out.

And even worse, sometimes a 12 hr shift isn't a 12hr shift, she can't always call it a day because she's done 12hrs.

The government is not responsible for pay awards, they have independent pay review bodies. I doubt it would be any different whichever party happened to be in power. I disagree with strikes and feel they do not help, they just cause harm to individuals and business. Listening to the news last night and an interview regarding paramedics, my first thought was that the spokesperson was stirring trouble with her comments, not being constructive or supportive, just militant. The country cannot be held to ransom and giving in to one group will cause more unrest. The country is in terrible debt, people have short memories about all the support they were given during Covid. I don’t know what the answer is or when all this will end.

Yes, absolutely agree. Especially about the cost of not defaulting on credit racked up to have a (grey) house to keep up with the Jones’s or a newish car on tick. I have all compassion for those genuinely in hard times but little that are there due to their own foolishness. But whatever, it is the children that suffer.

Tory government giggling away behind false concerned faces. Their objective has ever been to kill the NHS, along with minimising all state run operations. They've just about achieved their aim. Unforgivable what they have done over the last 12 years.

eazybee

No, it is the people who are choosing to go on strike who are to blame.

We had pretty much the same problems under Labour in the 70s. Enter the dreadful Margaret Thatcher! I don’t think it’s the fault of any government actually, we don’t live under a dictatorship, that’s why people are allowed to strike. Trouble is, where do they think the money is coming from to pay these higher wages, even higher than train drivers are paid already!!!
I’m no economist but even I can work out that we can’t spend more than we earn.

I think the issue of personal debt is a separate issue.

Unions and strikes have been very important in gaining workers better conditions and pay. I absolutely uphold the right to strike.
Agree Anneeba. Why could voters not see that? Unbelievable they've been in power so long.
Would a general strike be a good idea?

MaizieD

Just a wee reminder that the train drivers aren't on strike, Oreo. They are ASLEF. RMT is railway workers; station staff, track maintenance, guards etc. Not drivers.

I know they weren’t in the beginning but I thought they’d recently joined the strike.

I get very angry that shareholders get dividends, bosses get huge bonuses and strikers get blamed. Our country has never been so economically divided . I would ban all bonuses in favour of decent salaries across the board.
Our postman is fantastic and I support him totally as I do the rail workers , the nurses, the ambulance workers, immigration staff, anything to bring down this hopeless, ineffective, ineffectual, government. They have had 12 years to make life better . Disaster!

shropshirelass
“ The government is not responsible for pay awards, they have independent pay review bodies”

well you’ve fallen for that - hook, line and sinker

Nobody in the public sector actually makes money, so all the money to increase wages etc comes from the government who don’t make money either. Therefore all the wage rises etc will come from us out of our taxes and business taxes who actually do make some money thank goodness). This cannot be sustainable as the small percentages of business making the money cannot support the larger sector spending it!

Perhaps it would be more sensible for negotiations to include holidays, pensions, sickness days etc etc that the private sector receive in their pay package and convert some of this to wage rises.

A lot of the people striking (nurses excepted) are on fairly decent wages to begin with and the argument is because these haven’t risen in line with inflation but this is a chicken and egg situation as wage rises increase inflation.

Why for a start do all nurses needs degrees and the resultant higher wages? Why do we not have a layer of nursing staff trained on the job that can carry out basic nursing care as used to happen? To be honest we really need to start again and restructure the NHS but nobody dare!

ordinarygirl

No government of any colour can afford to pay 19%.what is annoying is the continuous statement that pay will not be discussed.only an idiot would bury their head in the sand.I wonder when the subject of pay for mps arrives, what the recommendation will be ?

If MPs are offered more then NHS workers there could be riots in the streets. That seems to be only thing to get the government to listen. It worked when Thatcher brought in the poll tax.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not advocating riots, but even the public who don't feel sympathy for NHS workers would surely not stand for MPs getting a higher percent rise. It would set a very dangerous precedent!

Cambia businesses make money from people spending it. Give the lower paid more money and they will spend it, often locally. Give the top end more they squirrel it away or take it abroad. It's the opposite of the absolutely shown to not work 'Trickle down effect' so beloved by the right. Wonder why they're so fond of it 🤔

And today regulated rail fares are announced to rise by nearly 6% next year, the highest rise for about ten years. And of course other, non-regulated fares have no cap to their increases. Why do we have to pay more for a worse, failing rail service for which the government has overseen contracts for the past 12 years? Time to de-privatize it and run it as a public service, not a cash cow for mainly foreign investors who are only interested in their dividends. And the Tories have the nerve to say the fare increase is fair! No shame, naturally.

Vettel...agree with your comment...

Nobody in the public sector actually makes money, so all the money to increase wages etc comes from the government who don’t make money either. Therefore all the wage rises etc will come from us out of our taxes and business taxes who actually do make some money thank goodness). This cannot be sustainable as the small percentages of business making the money cannot support the larger sector spending it!

You are absolutely, completely and utterly wrong, Cambia. In fact, the government is the only institution which can create (make) money. All the money in the country is money which has been created by the state government. The only money that hasn't been created by the state is any money coming from overseas investors or our exports. Which is a relatively small portion of the national wealth.

I suggest that anyone who disputes what I am saying has a read of the article about money creation in this Bank of England bulletin:

www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/quarterly-bulletin-2014-q1.pdf

There are very sound economic reasons why workers should have pay increases that keep abreast of inflation. The increases would only be inflationary if they were above inflation rate. The nurses' claim for 19%, though it would be just, as their pay has actually lost value in real terms over the past 12 years, isn't what they are expect to get, it is a starting point for negotiating. Start high and be prepared to come down.

Anneeba

Cambia businesses make money from people spending it. Give the lower paid more money and they will spend it, often locally. Give the top end more they squirrel it away or take it abroad. It's the opposite of the absolutely shown to not work 'Trickle down effect' so beloved by the right. Wonder why they're so fond of it 🤔

Absolutely true, Anneeba 👏👏👏

I apologise for shouting but some posters on here need reminding that;

TRAIN DRIVERS ARE NOT ON STRIKE

THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON UC ARE IN WORK.

and breathe......