Perverted man claims to be a woman - may be housed in a women's prison

Sex with children and animals is illegal but some with warped sexual preferences indulge. It doesn’t follow that they’re insane or that the disorder (if it is) is treatable. Coprophilia isn’t illegal but is disgusting to the majority. Is it a form if insanity? It’s a perversion, but human beings are complex creatures with myriad weird, bizarre and often very dangerous behaviours. They can’t all be lumped together under the umbrella of insanity.

tickingbird coprophilia, paedophilia, bestiality are all choices, whether illegal or not, so shouldn’t take up spaces badly needed for the increasing number of people with mental health problems.

This is moving away from the case in point, to a degree; but now that we've moved from a supernatural view of insanity (ie lunatics who were at the mercy of the cycles of the moon etc) to a more pragmatic one that focusses on agency and any danger to the 'patient' or others, does it really matter whether he is mad or bad, so long as he is kept somewhere where the risk to others is minimised?

If that means that a prison environment is unsuitable as he would pose a risk to staff and other inmates, and a hospital setup is more appropriate, then so be it; but the idea that it is unfair to punish people for actions beyond their control seems out of date now that there are so many diagnosable conditions that may limit impulse control and maybe agency too. It should come down to pragmatics, really.

The above is phrased as a statement, but is meant as more of a question, as I have zero expertise in this area beyond having watched a lot of courtroom drama on TV .

I'm not convinced that he is criminally insane. Completely agree that his sexual preferences are depraved, disgusting and illegal but he was sane enough to come to a conclusion that, in the month he's charged with these latest offences (October 2021), he decided to change his gender in the hope that he will avoid being sent to a male prison. From his previous sexual crimes, no reference was ever made to him "being a female" so I'm of the opinion that the judge in 2005 was quite correct in his summation of him: manipulative.

Manipulative- excellent word Chewbacca. He not only has no regard for children and animals, but no regard for TW either, as what he has done gives rise to more generalised assumptions that TW do that sort of thing. If for no other reason than that, he should be placed in a male prison.

Quite frankly as it’s Christmas Eve now I don’t wish to be talking or even thinking about such stuff so I’ll bid you farewell on this one.

Happy Christmas everyone ?

Mollygo

Manipulative- excellent word Chewbacca. He not only has no regard for children and animals, but no regard for TW either, as what he has done gives rise to more generalised assumptions that TW do that sort of thing. If for no other reason than that, he should be placed in a male prison.

That does suggest that he is capable of making choices, doesn't it? I agree that 'manipulative' is the right word.

From his previous sexual crimes, no reference was ever made to him "being a female" so I'm of the opinion that the judge in 2005 was quite correct in his summation of him: manipulative.

The notion that he was female should have been dismissed - laughed out of court. Manipulative is the right word.
Perhaps he should be offered reassignment surgery as a matter of urgency and see if he decides it wasn't such a good idea after all.

Presumably when he committed the unspeakable, he was a man at the time.
Molly, I never knew such words existed. I am glad I have gone all these years not knowing, even if I must be a bit slow.

He still is a man Allsorts.
It is not possible to change sex, whatever some people may claim.

It’s scrolling through to see how this thread has developed, I reread this.
23.12.2021 13:34
GagaJo are you seriously suggesting that potential TW would commit crimes and live with a prison record for the rest of their lives in order to get gender reassignment after which they could be placed in a women’s prison and think that a good deal?

Maybe it should be made a point of law, that if someone commits a sexual crime which uses male genitalia, they will be liable for male prison.

Would solve the issue of pretend-trans in one fell swoop. Because real trans women wouldn't commit those crimes.

Good idea GagaJo.

Agree 100% Gagajo, that would be ideal.

Great idea GagaJo!

GagaJo

Maybe it should be made a point of law, that if someone commits a sexual crime which uses male genitalia, they will be liable for male prison.

Would solve the issue of pretend-trans in one fell swoop. Because real trans women wouldn't commit those crimes.

I agree with your first paragraph GagaJo.
What do you mean by a ‘real trans woman’?
Women rarely commit sexual crimes and usually do so along with a man. Why would we believed a ‘real’ trans woman wouldn’t offend

Iam64 you are asking for the floodgates to be opened on all the sexual crimes committed by women! I’m not even going to google that. A list will surely follow on here.
The answer to your question is simple. If a transwoman commits a sexual crime then suddenly, he can’t possibly be a real transwoman. It’s a convenient blanket excuse.

If someone has committed a sexual crime which requires a penis that can be transformed into an erect phallus by the effect of male sexual hormones, then basically he is male, whatever he would prefer to be. This is particularly true if he had never considered the possibility of transitioning into a woman until he was faced with imprisonment for his paedophiliac and/or bestial crimes, and decided that being locked in with lots of women was a better alternative than with lots of frustrated men.

He is a Male whether he does that or not, you cant change sex. We dont suddenly say people arent of a particular characteristic because they have committed a terrible crime. Myra Hindley was a woman. She committed terrible crimes, still a woman. We end up in this situation by pretending men can be women.

Most ‘real’ transwomen still choose to retain their penises, so I’m led to believe from evidence cited on the Feminism board on MN

Mollygo. I was confident the number of women involved in sexually abusing children remains much lower than men. Google via official statistics reports that in 2018-19, 3.8% of imprisoned sex offenders prison were female.

It’s probable the number is higher but that would apply to male sex offenders as well.

People accused or convicted of any crimes should be recorded and treated as the sex they actually are, not the one they wish to be.

GagaJo's suggestion would be a good first step and no-one would need to think about whether the person is a 'real transwoman' or not because all transwomen are male.

There is a petition under consideration in the Scottish Parliament to Accurately record the sex of people charged or convicted of rape or attempted rape.
petitions.parliament.scot/petitions/PE1876
The Scottish Government's current position is that Police Scotland may treat males as women, if they like (which Police Scotland have said they do) and likewise the Scottish Prison Service.
I believe the situation in England is similar except there is no petition.

Who will arbitrate on which are real transwomen and which are pretend transwomen? This attempt at categorisation truly shows up the magical thinking that’s behind the trans movement.

SueDonim
Yesterday @ 10:41 I read, real transwomen wouldn’t commit those crimes.
and that if someone commits a sexual crime which uses male genitalia they will be liable for male prison.
So if those terms apply, that’s TW sex offenders sorted. Now we have just to deal with transwomen who commit non sexual crimes, unless no transwoman would dream of doing that.

Of course they wouldn't Mollygo so any supposed transwoman who commits a crime can be immediately recognised as male.
Thanks for that idea GagaJo.

hmm, perhaps it would be simpler to recognise that all transwomen are male