Poor baby - run home to mummy!

Oooops, I had a relationship with a teacher, I wanted to,

trisher. Mandy Rice Davies chose to work in a nightclub, you
refuse to believe some girls choose who they have a relationship with , for you any girl who has a relationship with
a man with wealth is a victim,

Anniebach of course they do but if that relationship is with a teacher it is illegal. I think some men will use their power and money to exert the same influence a teacher would. I think girls need protection from those men.

Some Men do have relationships with girls under the age of 18 .

Some Girls under 18 choose to have relationships, I did.

So are we to say that it is OK for powerful men to have relationships with girls under the age of 18 because some of them will be OK and survive? It seems to me that if we consider teachers shouldn't have relationships with pupils even after 16 we should also look at relationships between powerful men and 16-18 year olds. Undue influence applies in both cases.

I apologise about Stephen Ward he did die at home in Chelsea. The question of his suicide remains though. And the fact that an appeal could not be registered because some of the trial notes were missing and that the file on the case is locked until 2046. Which makes you wonder about the RF involvement.
Any idea that this is just Andrew is doubtful, the family isn't the shining light it pretends to be.

Two minor corrections:

Petera for the purposes of sexual offences committed against children, a child is a person under 16.

trisher Stephen Ward did commit suicide, but not in jail.

Absolutely agree with your posts Casdon.

It’s like any situation though isn’t it trisher, some are victims and some aren’t. I’m not condoning the way men exploit young women at all, but some young women are nobody’s fool, know exactly what’s happening and use it to their advantage whilst maintaining their own integrity and sense of self worth. MRD was one of those.

casdon I think she is relevant, her relationships with rich powerful men happened at parties which Stephen Ward arranged. The same sort of parties Epstein arranged. Both men finished up dead in prison having apparently committed suicide. There are rumours of the RF being involved in both things. Yet they are still considered honourable.

That’s not relevant is it, she was not 14? When people make sweeping statements that imply exploitation of an individual I always think have they done their homework on that person, and to be honest you hadn’t in this case or you wouldn’t have used her as an example. The fact that she didn’t consider herself abused means just that in this particular case, not as a generalisation about all.

Casdon I know about MRD and her life. Does the fact that she didn't consider herself abused mean that we should change the legal age of consent and make it 14 for some girls? Is it only abuse if the girl thinks it is?

I suggest you listen to this trisher, a perspective on MRD’s life. You have projected your views on her experiences, but she didn’t consider herself a victim. She was a very interesting woman though, and led a very colourful life.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-30545458

Was she abused ? And her father a police officer

Casdon

Mandy Rice Davies never considered herself a victim which is the material point. She was one very clever lady actually.

So if you survive abuse and prosper was it not abuse?
I have no doubt she was clever, clever girls can still be abused. I like her description of her life after the trial "a slow descent into respectability".
But back to Andrew. So why haven't his security team supported his assertions that he wasn't at the party with VG?

Germanshepherdsmum

MRD chose to offer sex to men who would pay for it. She was old enough to know what she was doing. Above the age of consent, not a child. I remember the trial. If anyone was exploited in that matter it wasn’t her or Keeler.

And again - if you are going to argue semantics - the legal definition of a child is someone under the age of majority not someone over the age of consent.

That is your opinion GSM she was 15 when she started working in London, 16 when she started work as a model, 18 when she moved in with Rachman (not a man known for offering choices to people).
Interestingly it has been said that Stephen Ward who is said to have committed suicide was encouraged to do so by an MI6 officer because he had information about a member of the RF.
Funny old world isn't it????

Mandy Rice Davies never considered herself a victim which is the material point. She was one very clever lady actually.

MRD chose to offer sex to men who would pay for it. She was old enough to know what she was doing. Above the age of consent, not a child. I remember the trial. If anyone was exploited in that matter it wasn’t her or Keeler.

Anniebach

Why not a choice trisher ? She chose to leave home to live and work as a dancer in London , you think no teenage girl
can make their own choices

So she chose to be exploited GSM?

Evidence trisher? I must have missed that.

I can only base my views on evidence Gsm No support for MRD, no support for VG. Apparently they made their choices.
Perhaps it is because the men who exploited both girls were rich and white, and rich white men can't be involved in such things can they? (of course they can and they can cover things up much more successfully)

However people have been stating their points -

Virginia Roberts was a child.

Mandy Rice-Davies was a child.

You can believe, if you want, that they had complete agency in their decisions, but don't expect others - or the law - to agree with you.

trisher, how can you claim that Annie is ‘obviously quite happy to see [teenage girls] exploited’. What a ridiculous and insulting thing to say. There is nothing to suggest that Mandy Rice Davies didn’t make her own choices as to what she did and the company she kept. Anyway as Annie said, your mention of her is a complete distraction.

trisher you brought Mandy Rice Davies into the discussion

Andrew’s daughter has no recollection of the party when she was 12, the family who hosted the party confirmed she was at
the party that afternoon but not Andrew.

I don’t believe the pizza hut claim , why wasn’t Fergie there

I think children need protection from men who will use them for their own purposes Annie you are ooviously quite happy to see them exploited. She was actually a model to begin with and then became a dancer but of course both of those terms indicate someone has low morals and who doesn't deserve the protection of the law.
Talk about distraction. Let's go back to the dodgy prince and where he might have been. Pizzahut-highly unlikely.

Why not a choice trisher ? She chose to leave home to live and work as a dancer in London , you think no teenage girl
can make their own choices

Germanshepardsmum* so confusing, Mandy Rice-Davies ,
Christine Keeler and others were in trisher’s opinion exploited.

In my opinion Ghislaine Maxwell was and is a woman who has
deep emotional problems but this is of no interest because she
is wealthy.