'Trans' a book about transactivism

Stonewall has used 'training' to many, many organisations to claim that trans people must be included at all times.
The Equality and Human Rights Commission stated that in its guidance.
Organisations were given completely wrong information by Stonewall, an organisation that they trusted because of its work on LGB rights.
It has taken legal action by feminists to achieve rulings that what you state trisher, that trans people can be excluded, is the law.

Not everyone, of course, goes by UK law e.g. the Olympic committee.

The enormous furore from transactivists has caused many to completely disregard safety and fairness for women and girls.

All true, but rather disingenuous of you trisher . Most organisations are too scared of the inevitable pile on if they dare to try and enact these exemptions. Trans allies and transwomen activists routinely target any transgressors from their way. Ask J K Rowling about the rape threats, invitations to choke on lady penis, and just this past weekend mentions of a pipe bomb through her letterbox for stating that sex is real and immutable. The vile people who posted porn on her twitter feed where parents were submitting their children's drawings for consideration in the Ickabog book. Jolyon Maugham even had the nerve to tweet in response criticism of the porn posters "Perplexed by that tweet. You said the Ickabog was for seven to nine year olds. The lower age limit for twitter is 13. Given how this place is, wouldn't it have been responsible for you to discourage kids from using twitter rather than encouraging them to send you artwork here? Presumably he thinks it's not wrong to expose over 13s to porn, and totally disregarded that it was parents submitting their children's drawings but would probably like to show their children. Jess de Wahls was a recent, now corrected, victim of their cancel culture at the Royal Academy. There are numerous victims of the transgender agenda, disagree at your peril. An employee of Barclays Bank tried to get Frances Barber sacked from her latest acting role for not toeing the line. It's everywhere there is any dissent. Of course all these actions do nothing to help people with genuine gender dysphoria.

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Rosie51 If we are going to legislate by what is said on Twitter then democracy is dead and buried. Many women in public life receive abuse on social media. Who posts most of it is hard to discover. I would imagine some people are not actually transactivists but simply people who will abuse anyone for any reason. Mary Beard advocates responding and trying to enter a discussion by e-mail, who knows it might work.

trisher oh well that's alright then, funny how it almost all goes in one direction.

Democracy, would that be a tiny minority of people having laws etc changed to their preferred stance without even consulting the majority of people? Plain language contorted to eliminate mention of women or girls in situations that only affect female sexed bodies...... bleeders or menstruators, cervix havers, vagina owners, birthing people etc

The thing is, sex and gender are the most rigid and unbending criteria humans are defined by. It was inevitable that the fight to effect change would be brutal. If you consider how long civil rights groups have been trying to stamp out racism (which still has probably hundreds of years worth of work ahead), the battle to break down the rigidity of sex/gender is in its infancy.

GagaJo

The thing is, sex and gender are the most rigid and unbending criteria humans are defined by. It was inevitable that the fight to effect change would be brutal. If you consider how long civil rights groups have been trying to stamp out racism (which still has probably hundreds of years worth of work ahead), the battle to break down the rigidity of sex/gender is in its infancy.

But sex is fixed, it's a scientific fact. Like the earth is a globe and not flat, no matter hw much the flat-earthers may wish it wasn't. Gender, as a social construct, can be whatever we want. Today's transgenderism appears to adhere to a rigidity that was fading away. Boy George, David Bowie et al dressed how they liked, wore makeup and more. Now it's if a boy likes pink, barbies and high heels he's probably a girl. If a girl likes climbing, cars and trains then she's probably a boy. Mermaids love the gender spectrum chart, and seem to endorse strict gendering of toys and clothes. Certainly Susie Green their CEO always has. Personally I don't have a gender. I'm the female sex which informs that I'm a woman. I don't know how "women" feel, only how this woman feels. I know I'm a woman because of my biology, otherwise I'm just me. Do away with gender, stop the deliberate blurring of sex and gender, let's just use sex as our definers when they are needed. As Debbie Hayton, transwoman and scientist, says to anyone who questions sex and biology, every single person, past and present, will find they've come from parents one of whom was male, the other female.

Mmm I wonder if Freddy McConnell and the other trans men whohave given birth would agree with that?https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/20/the-dad-who-gave-birth-pregnant-trans-freddy-mcconnell

Transmen giving birth!?????
Call themselves what they will, dress how they like act how they want -they gave birth because they are women.

So now women who don't want to be women have to be because you say so? What sort of feminism is that?

GagaJo

The thing is, sex and gender are the most rigid and unbending criteria humans are defined by. It was inevitable that the fight to effect change would be brutal. If you consider how long civil rights groups have been trying to stamp out racism (which still has probably hundreds of years worth of work ahead), the battle to break down the rigidity of sex/gender is in its infancy.

I agree that gender constraints are ingrained in society, but they are not immutable. Even in my lifetime there have been a lot of changes, and society shifts all the time.

I know that this is going over old ground with you, but surely it is sensible to make it acceptable for men and women to choose their norms and behaviour without being considered odd if their choices cross what 'society' sees as gender lines, rather than to suggest that anyone who does so is misgendered?

Doing the latter suggests that gender conformity is somehow natural, and that rather than accept that it is a social construct that can be abolished, it is better to choose a gender to conform to, even if by doing so you have to deny your sex, and potentially have life-altering surgery.

trisher Freddy McConnell can call himself whatever he wishes but to have gestated and delivered a baby Freddie HAS to have female biology! Presumably he used a female ovary to release an ovum, which was fertilised by a sperm from a male sex person, which then implanted into a female uterus where it grew until the time came for separation. If you know differently there are scientists worldwide who would love to see the evidence. Isn't Freddie the one who wanted to go down as father on their child's birth certificate? An act of pure narcissistic validation, totally ignoring that the birth certificate belongs to their child not them.

I wonder if there are more transwomen than transmen?
And if so (which I suspect is the case) - why?
A woman's ability to create a new life?
With a little bit of help from the other side.

Oh give it up Rosie. If sex were as rigidly defined as you insist, there would be no variants.

The X & Y Variations include XXY, XYY, XXX. There are several variants which include Tetrasomy X, Pentasomy X, XXXX, XXXY, XXYY, and XXXXY, to name just a few.

Sex ISN'T the monolith the gender critical claim. Medicalising variants is no different to the way homosexuality was previously medicalised into a disorder or a condition.

I am SO bored with this 'You can't argue with science' fallacy. It is BS.

No the increase in female to Male has increased beyond measure, it is one of the subjects which people are trying to talk about.

trisher

So now women who don't want to be women have to be because you say so? What sort of feminism is that?

They can be whatever they want to call themselves, be it man, woman, or trannie. They can give birth because they are women.
What do you think feminism is?

Further to my comment of 17.09, I suspect that if the sex chromosomes of all of us were tested, that we would find variants are FAR more common than we currently believe.

No GagaJo I won't give it up. You are sprouting absolute rubbish. Nice bit of googling there but every one of those combinations you've listed can be traced ultimately to a male or female sex. It's you medicalising variants, and as with so many with no argument dragging gay and lesbian people into it is just base. How can there be homosexuality if sex isn't real? What is it homosexuals are attracted to, someone who conforms rigidly to a gender stereotype rather than someone with a sexed body? Are you a Covid denier too, they don't believe in science either?

I'm out Rosie. We are diametrically opposed. I accept your right to your POV. You don't accept my right to mine.

No point debating with dictators.

If you are so interested in facts, BTW, if you track the history of a lot of trans individuals, they begun their trans journey in the gay community. Del La Grace, Judith Halberstam. Not for nothing is it LGBTQIA.

Er I am not sure what that proves to be honest, the gay community is quite divided on this subject. Many are absolutely furious about the denial of sex as a reality.

Try reading this. It might open your eyes a bit. Free download. It's an amazing read.

www.lesliefeinberg.net/

Sorry Galaxy. Not aimed at you.

The gay groups I've been part of have had many trans members. I haven't come across any of the bad feeling described on here.

A seperate organisation has been formed because of this gagajo, stonewall is under constant criticism, two of its founders are gender critical the other founders are very much not gender critical, I am afraid there is a great deal of ill feeling.

I don't deny it's out there. Just not my experience. Maybe I've been fortunate, but in 3 different areas of the UK where I've had involvement I've only witnessed support from lesbians towards the trans members of their communities.