I don't know what to do...

tickingbird and tillybelle. I am interested in your posts as I also think I might have had the virus already, and I have heard others, on phone-ins etc, saying the same thing, and then usually being rubbished by doctors and academics! I stayed in an apart-hotel in Chinatown in Birmingham for a few days between 23 and 29 December. This was planned so that I could be near my family over Christmas without actually staying in their packed house! It worked really well and I enjoyed having my own space and going into the Chinese cafes and supermarkets. Back home on 3 Jan I suddenly felt really ill, feverish, very achey, exhausted and with a dreadful rasping and gasping-for-breath dry cough - something I never usually get. I wasn’t terribly ill and it only lasted a few days but it was a while before I felt really well again. I forgot about it fir a few weeks, but I’m now wondering if I had a mild version of the virus before it mutated and became much more serious in Wuhan/Hubei. I have heard medics suggesting that it had probably been round for a while in a milder form before it got severe enough for people to be tested and became so extremely infectious. Whatever it was I am not assuming that I am immune as it could have been a slightly different variant. Also there is some doubt about whether an attack gives immunity. Interesting anyway, there is still lots that isn’t known.

Tillybelle I do wonder if this has been in the country for longer although it probably wasn't here in November when I was ill. I did have a really bad cough which just wouldn't stop, my head was pounding and it began with a sore throat. It also went and then came back. All in all I was ill for three weeks. I really wish that was Covid19 as I could stop worrying, go out and maybe help others. Unfortuantely, there is no way of knowing.

Very sad posts. I think the idea sitting outside on the phone is a good idea, I’m also like a poster said my dear Mam isn’t with me now I’d hate worrying about her and not been able to visit her, I took her flowers and a card to her grave earlier. I’m glad she is at peace

Feeling sad. Normally look after our two little grandsons three days a week but because we also look after my mum, 93 years old and living on her own, we can't risk catching the virus and not being around for her. So we have said goodbye to them and my daughter and her husband for at least three months! Devestated as the boys are not old enough to understand what's going on and why they're not seeing us. Feel we've abandoned them. Thank goodness we can see and talk to them on Whats App.

My son in the Netherlands whatsapped this morning. His house tenant in the UK has stopped paying rent on her home here as he is self isolating. He can’t support a mortgage, his own rent abroad and his kids education at English international school. He is worried he will lose his job too. Last week he was very upbeat.

Very little fresh food available in our county and shortages of all the usual suspects. Some mothers are unable to buy formula and nappies. Only about half of my online shop turned up and none of the things I really needed.

Heartbroken we can no longer look after GD aged 18 months. She is the only one of 6 GC not living abroad and we’ve built a special relationship with her.

Today I just want to cry. But I know many, many others have huge problems and are unwell. The world as we know it seems have disappeared this week.

It's all about balancing risks. No-one should be visiting old people unnecessarily (and we're all old people too!), in case they take the virus to someone whose immune system can't cope. On the other hand, if the old person needs care and you are the one who has to give it, there's very little choice. You just have to visit.

It's a very hard choice and I sympathise with anyone who has to make it.

Its horrible. DH has a colleague who has elderly parents who are basically approaching the end. She doesnt know wjether she and her kids should visit for what will probably be the last time or to go and possibly unknowingly carry the virus.

We also have yet to tell ds who has SN (and is also in the vulnerable group) that he cant go and see the grandparents as usual. I also dont know if they are computer savvy enough to set up skype or similar. (I suspect not - maybe dh can talk then through it)

Aww bless. We are in between a rock and a hard place. My family will go for walks together, and sit separately in the garden chatting. Just keep a distance xxx

It is going to be incredibly difficult. I live 330 miles away from my lovely Mum. She is 94 in April, just before the Queen's birthday. I will miss Mother's Day with her. We lost my Dad last year, he was 93 and and in a Dementia unit. It is hard for us. My Mum is not in good health. One son is getting married and the other is expecting their first baby this year. I worry about all of them.
My highlight of the week is looking after my two little grand-children on Mondays. The only thing that I am clinging onto is that this will all eventually pass and I am taking one day at a time.

So very sorry to read all these stories...very very difficult times for everyone, especially those working in the NHS or those who cannot visit elderly parents. I am on my own with no family and am 'only' 73 ...I sadly lost my husband as well as my only sibling last year, have no contact with my only daughter ...thank goodness for FB,,,although that won't help he elderly with dementia and no contact ...I love the story of the son who phoned his dad whilst sitting outside the window !! wonderful ….I wonder if someone au fait with computers could set up a skype call with relatives for the elderly ? would probably have to be something simple but I am sure maybe a local college teaching IT might be able to help ….if the young person could set up a system remotely and talk it through with a relative or carer ?

Cat amongst the pigeons time. Have you asked your dad whether he would like you to continue visiting albeit with the chance that you might inadvertantly pass the virus to him which might shorten his life? I know if I were older and frail and needed to make the choice between staying healthier but being very lonely and missing the company of loved ones, I would take the risk to carry on seeing them I am seriously worried about the mental health of a whole generation that might find themselves isolated, and some might be struggling enough already and choose not to 'carry on' Many people who have not yet given up the will to live could find themselves of the precipice, some will feel that death is preferable to the loneliness. Please would people ask their loved ones what risk level they would go to, dont assume or decide for them. That generation have been through so much in their lives, can they not make this decision?

One of Dad's good friends had a massive heart attack 2 weeks ago. He wants me to ring up and ask how he is. No Dad, they will not tell me anything as per Hospital Policy. He is now upset as they have been friends for over 40 years. I think his problem is that MayDay in Cornwall maybe cancelled ?

Marydoll
I'm with you.
I suspect we have similar backgrounds, similar scientific knowledge.
I find it hard to deal with opinionated people who think the British Govt knows what it is doing or believes it is doing the right thing. I can't bear it if someone is patronising or suggests I'm worrying too much if I speak of any facts. I have always approached life by learning as much as I can and facing the facts, and I still have contacts in the medical world who keep me in touch.

I'm so sorry you have a medical condition. I do hope you'll be able to keep safely isolated for as long as you need to. The truth about the virus and Britain's readiness and approach would probably make people panic and become antisocial. There is hope for us if we self-isolate. For those with difficult situations such as mentioned here, I feel confident the people will find a way to manage both their elderly mum/dad and their own needs. I know it's extremely demanding. But we are very adaptable people.
Wishing you all the very best of good luck and enjoy your sewing!!

dancingfeet. That's not easy, for you or little one. I hope she will adapt with that remarkable ability young children have. I can only say that the truth told in a friendly and not frightening way is my policy. Something like there is this nasty thing called a virus that Granny and Grandad must not catch because they are old. The virus doesn't hurt young people or mummies and aunties but granny and grandad and all the other g and gs have to stay in their houses and not see anyone until the virus goes away. Maybe we can wave to them. They love you very much and are missing you.

It may have to be told a few times. Good luck. Lots of love, Elle x

Tillybelle Yes I realise about the mutation but after it crosses from an animal to a human it then mutates so as to become easier for it to pass from human to human. It's already happened obviously and this podcast is about 10 days old and before it really kicked off over here and in America. He talks a lot of sense and I believe him.

Annemac1 our pharmacy is doing same thing, I'm told patients queue outside keeping their distance from each other.

To all those who are breaking hearts wondering if shall ever get to cuddle grandchildren again, I'm in same boat and it's awful, you have my sympathy.

Stay as well as you can everyone. Skype is a good way of keeping in touch with your loved ones, that or onscreen chats on Messenger and, I think, WhatsApp, I'm going to use them so my little GC don't forget what I look like, they're used to spending 2 days a week with us plus other visits so they possibly miss us too. I know my little grandson was delighted to see me on his mum's phone yesterday. It's not the same but it's better than nothing. I'm sure many tears of loneliness will be shed but at least we are able to keep in touch much more easily than our parents could during WW2. Stay strong. X

dancingfeet I read a review of a book explaining the CV to young children - www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/03/09/picture-book-about-coronavirus-released-as-parents-report-childrens-worry/
I haven't seen or read it - maybe someone here can comment whether it's useful?

tickingbird. Thanks I'll watch that. I'll look up the man I follow if I can too. Also there are University lectures "Virology 2020" on youtube.

Concerning if/when the virus mutates:

There is misunderstanding here. Viruses mutate all the time, as they pass from organ to organ to keep going the virus mutates to its new host. There is no sudden big change or momentous mutation where it appears with new horrible ways to attack us. Actually a virus needs its host to stay alive so that the host can pass the virus to another host etc. Once a virus does not have anyone new to go to it will not be able to survive. It can only be active once it is inside an appropriate host and each time it mores from one host to the next it mutates a bit to accommodate that host.

It is possible that a virus might mutate to change the way it affects us. It would be so that it could keep spreading, because a virus that is not in a host will die. It might mutate to make us more ill but it would not survive long if the person died. It has to get into other hosts, like a parasite, to live, it multiplies and mutates inside each host and gets passed on to new hosts.

Mrsdorf, I am in a similar situation, my mum is almost 100, living alone but doesn’t go out & relies on me for shopping & chats, etc. It is a dilemma but we do take precautions, hand washing, wiping down surfaces, keeping our distance, but if I didn’t go & see her & just left her shopping on the doorstep I really think she’d get quite down. It’s a difficult decision.

Yes, thats the dilemma, you take all the precautions and are careful and then you see the next door neighbour or friend, who are very cavalier about the whole thing and think you are being the stupid one!!

My friend told me this morning that her weekly neighbour's coffee morning is still going ahead as usual.
She would not be going as her 88 year old H is very vulnerable but the others don't think it is wrong.
None are less than 70, selfish doesn't even start to say just how wrong this is.

Dear LinAnn52, This realisation of the full impact of this situation is going to hit us at times and pull us down. I am so sorry. There is no replacement for seeing your grandchildren, but do try to be as positive as you can. I am sure you are. You have spoken for many of us I think. Maybe somehow here we could have an ongoing forum during this time, for comfort, companionship, help and generally to help us through. I went into a massive dip in the early hours of the morning but fortunately I've come out of it.
I do hope you will begin to feel a bit more able to fight on through this soon. The sacrifices we are making are for the greater good and that can never be underestimated. Try to find ways to keep your spirits up!

Sending lots of love, to LinAnn52 and all who are having a tough time. We'll all help each other get through this xx

If anyone wishes to hear what an American expert in these viruses has to say then look on youtube for Michael Osterholm, especially on a podcast by Joe Rogan, who has him on as a guest. He's concerned what will happen when the Chinese all come out of lockdown and also when the virus mutates.

I was watching a documentary on the Spanish Flu epidemic. It became much more deadly once it mutated as the virus alters itself to keep itself going. We will survive this but things are going to change and there's no doubt that these Chinese wet markets will be no more. The Chinese government will be under pressure from the rest of the world to change the way they farm all these wild animals and the horrendous conditions they keep them in.

If your father was in a care home like mine is, the choice is taken away and you would not be able to see him anyway. I hate these thoughts of last seeing, hugging and telling them you love them, but what can we do? They protected us throughout our childhoods and early adult hood so we should try to protect them during these dreadful times. Hopefully it won't last too long. You are not alone with your fears .

I am angry because I have been isolated for two weeks and never seen the family. My neighbour has been on holiday using trains and goes out every day on public transport.
She has a teenager stay with her from Friday to Sunday night and this week she has had primary school age GS with her every day. The child's mother drops him off so she can go to the gym or have an afternoon rest.
This neighbour mid seventies wanders across to chat to DH who is too polite to step away and of course he won't tell people he has cancer.
I do all the right things but others still put you at risk.
I think I am driving DH crackers by asking him if he has washed his hands about twenty times a day.

I am in a very difficult situation.
I am 82 so am considered vulnerable.
Since my H died 11 months ago, first my S ,then my GD came to live with me, it suits us all until now.
They both work and my GD uses public transport.
My S works with the general public.
I really feel I will contract the virus from them.
My house is not small and we can be apart, we wear gloves and wipe down incessantly, what more can we do.
Them moving out isn’t practical or financially viable.