Robbie Williams and surrogacy

Please tell me about anybody who is not wealthy and turns to surrogacy?

Adoption and surrogacy are being lumped together, because a poster made a point that children in both circumstances experience the same brain changing trauma. That it’s damaging in the same way to both. That the children are irrecoverably changed.

Not all who turn to surrogacy are wealthy

Well said trisher.

I absolutely do not understand why surrogacy and adoption and being lumped together here.

With adoption, the child is here. We don't know the circumstances and somebody wishes to care for the child. Again we don't know the circumstances. In the UK the process is done carefully and is strictly regulated. Support is offered to the adoptive parents and the child. Fantastic. An excellent thing.

Surrogacy, there is no child ( yet). Somebody or bodies choose to have one.I can think of many reasons why this may be unwise and personally, I feel uncomfortable with the concept of wealthy people using surrogacy. I think I am able to hold this view if I wish?

Trisher,
You are absolutely correct. I echo Annie, bravo.

Bravo trisher

If we are to lessen risk for parents notanan2 the logical thing to do would be to stop them driving cars. It's dangerous!

Trusher what about the children of surrogates? Its tragic enough when women die carrying their own babies, but to die being used by someone more well off who didnt want to take that risk for their own children?

Do we really want to roll back that way? To when household names were insulated from ethical/legal/moral standards that the ordinary folk are held to?

OK logically if we are to look at that unemotionally (and I apologise if this causes distress to anyone who has been involved in adoption or surrogacy) what those who think damage is caused by adoption or handing over a surrogate baby are sayng is that a baby shouldn't suffer any trauma. The obvious way of stopping that is abortion or never permitting surrogacy. You are in fact saying it would be best for them if some people never existed. It's rubbish. We all suffer small amounts of trauma. I was seperated from my mother for months when I was less than 3 because she was in hospital. In those days children were not permitted in wards so I never even saw her and I survived. And no sort of work to repair the damage was even considered.
Stop dwelling on the negatives and look at the positives. Children are cared for and loved by parents who wanted them and who will do their best to raise them, be they adopted or surrogate. Save your concerns for those unwanted children born into violence and discord.

There are still some "old boys" and girls in ITV and BBC who will use #bekind to stifle #metoo

Dont be their minions.

Really what its about is the opposite of kindness.
Its about letting celebs do unkind things without consequence because now everyone is afraid of #bekind. Back to the "golden age" of celebrity

Even the journalist who wrote not a tabloid piece, but a considered interview with CF who challenged her statements about age not mattering (in relation to adults dating teens) has been forced to retract it and make a statement that she wont write things that might make celebs feel uncomfortable again. She will only write nice things now

So RW can trample and use who he likes. As he has a long history of doing to women in particular. And we all have to be kind about it....

Spot on nan. In a micro way, I was also pointing out that the ‘be kind’ rubbish on GN is also about stifling informed, legitimate debate. When people want to shut you up/close you down, it’s always in their best interests.

Agree with the above but also think there is a sinister side to the "be kind" hashtag movement... it was widely rumoured that some of the most outspoken "be kind" hashtagging celebs had similar stories about to break on them (specifically dating teens!)

CFs "bad press" was not unjustified. She wasnt body-shamed or criticised for minor things. Journalists were questioning the suitability of a person who dated a teenager while in her 30s, was accused of DV and worse, broke her bail by sending messages to her victim, to be one of the "faces" of "family shows". Thats justified public interest journalism not "relentless hounding". The public did not want that type of institutionally protected culture in TV any more...

And it had some other "wholesome" family show celebs quaking in their boots. And IMO some unsavoury types are using her death to shut up their own victims etc and silence the press. And gullible types are re-hashtagging it as if its all about love and rainbows..

8.Alllow me to derail a serious thread when I’m losing the argument and use in so doing

7. Say something apiteful and include a smiley face.

GN translation of ‘being kind’

1, Do not criticise my views with informed, rational arguments
2. Do not correct any factual mistakes I make
3. Allow me to misquote you and/ or change what you posted to something completely different and then launch a personal attack on what you didn’t actually say
4. Allow me to start posts with ‘ don’t take this the wrong way’ when actually we both know that’s exactly what we want you to do and how’s it’s meant
5. Allow me to say ‘judgemental’ when actually what you have done is come to a sound judgement based on evidence and rational thought
6. Allow me to start a passive aggressive thread about being kind to,posters

The " be kind" thing is starting to irrite me already. What on earth has the suicide of CF and RW family and surrogacy got in common?

I'm pretty sure RW and his wife aren't going to be weeping because a few people on GN question their actions.

Missiseff I agree. Truly awful. Unkind, judgmental and in some cases, downright ignorant as well.

You’ve missed my point notanan. Completely.

That’s ok.

Enjoy your night.

Also, 2 men are not "infertile" by default of being gay. Not unless they both have low sperm count/motility.

Surrogacy is often used by fertile rich couples who can have their own genetic child but feel entitled to buy a womans body to gestate it, then pretend like that woman was nothing more than an incubator, and not an important part of the childs life

Surrogacy is often nothing to do with infertility or childlessness. Plenty of celebs who have been open about surrogacy are not infertile but did not want to "risk" a pregnancy themselves as it could leave them with complications (as pregnancies frequently do)

So outsourced the risk. By exploiting financial vulnerability.
If Im wrong, show me the rich non familial surrogates! Where are they?

Is this thread about rich and poor, or is it about, as I understood it, is it about infertility? Is it about the different ways to overcome infertility, including surrogacy? That’s what I thought this thread is about.
Trisher, thank you for your sensitive and balanced contributions.
Thank you for your kind comment dorcas.