Robbie Williams and surrogacy

I have no knowledge of 'open' adoption notanan2 but I do think its sad to dismiss adoption as too traumatic when so many children have had really good lives with their adoptive families.

Nobody is dismissing adoption when it is necessary

There is undeniable evidence however that the birth mother in particular should be acknowledged and if possible in contact, even in early adoptions. Because an attatchment was there and it getting broken so early has consequences

Wasn’t the law changed re anonymity of sperm donors?

There was some debate as all of the science pointed to children needing it to be open. Bit men werent donating if open.
.

Attatchment is not the same as bonding
The infant has an attatchment to the birth mother.
Breaking that attatchment that early physicall changes the child.
It is to be avoided wherever possible

Here’s the law on it all re sperm donation. Child has rights to identity of donor at age 18.
www.hfea.gov.uk/treatments/explore-all-treatments/using-donated-eggs-sperm-or-embryos-in-treatment/legal-implications-of-using-donated-sperm/

As I said "best practice" was balanced against putting donors off.

The evidence based best practice is that the child knows from the start, it is acknowledged and if possible there is some contact.
But in order to retain doners they had to make it from 18 only

FWIW I also think that its disgusting that cheaper/subsidised IVF is offered to less well off couples if they agree to donate eggs in the process.

All arguments of altruism go out the window when its only attracting the less well off..

A baby born to a surrogate who had previous children, is not a sibling to those children in cases where the embryo was used from the biological parents.

Some attitudes here towards adoption are shocking. To infer that most adopted children have trauma and damage? Goodness

I don't think that many rich women choose to be surrogates except in rare occasions for close relatives.
There are stronger laws preventing puppies (at least in many countries) from being removed from their mothers too early than there are for human babies.
In poorer countries (where people often go to find a surrogate) the aftercare is often not good and the amount paid is often not enough to pay for any post operative complications.
It is just another way of oppressing the poor.

I think it’s sad that a woman cannot feel fulfilled unless she has a child. And so many then go back to work so soon after welcoming a baby to their home. The babies are being treated as accessories, brought up be nannies and childminders.

Paperbackwriter Yes I am against sperm donation. And personal sob stories aren’t going to change my opinion.

Did the child consent to being created but having no connection to their biological father? No relationship? No questions answered? Not know if they have siblings? Not knowing if they meet a sibling in real life?

And then there’s the new technology.
So it’s so easy to track down relatives.
So one day they find their father and want a relationship. And they get rejected.

This has happened to people. And they have been greatly affected by it.

I’m not revisiting the adoption argument. Because it isn’t an argument. It’s fact. With science. And not some random pointless stories.

And yes. I do massively judge people who use surrogates.

Some attitudes here towards adoption are shocking. To infer that most adopted children have trauma and damage?

Adoption is a trauma, its a scientific fact

I think it’s sad that a woman cannot feel fulfilled unless she has a child.

Yet, constantly women are asking their children when they will make them grandmothers. Where are the snide comments for that?

Re: going to work, what’s the other option in today’s world where most families need two salaries to not live in poverty?

A baby born to a surrogate who had previous children, is not a sibling to those children in cases where the embryo was used from the biological parents.

Theyre still affected. Even the surrogacy industry itself acknowledges that as you can claim expenses for "rebonding" activities with your existing children after the surrogacy has ended.

Blimey, perhaps I should tell ALL my adopted relatives that they are TRAUMATISED!!!!

notanan2 please give links to your "facts"

Adoption is a trauma, its a scientific fact

But you are inferring that adopted children are damaged and broken.

That’s a pretty insulting attitude. There may be past trauma, but most people have past trauma they move past.

To insinuate that being adopted has made a person damaged, infers that they are less than their peers who were not adopted.

It’s a pretty arrogant view.

Not all adopted people have the same experience.

Theyre still affected. Even the surrogacy industry itself acknowledges that as you can claim expenses for "rebonding" activities with your existing children after the surrogacy has ended.

I didn’t deny that.

I said they were not siblings.

Its very basic science. Early attatchment trauma changes the childs DNA.

Its basic, extensively researched, universally accepted in mefical and child services fields fact.

Its doesnt mean that no adoptd person has a fulfilling life.

The trauma is physical. Its biological and very real.

You need to have a word with the NHS then summer, they are very clear about the issue of trauma and adoption. Nobody is saying people are less because they are adopted, they are acknowledging what has happened to them. It is an issue which is discussed at length with adoptive parents in order that they can provide the child with support.

It affects their endocrinr system and their brain.

It doesnt mean theyre written off for life, but they are changed for life. Early infant attatchment has lifelong effects.

Its so widely evidenced and accepted that I cant believe people are actually denying it. Most of modern phychotherapy and psychiatry is based on an understanding of attachment theory

No I didn’t Summer.
I said they’d been traumatised. They have.
They have experienced trauma. And this can have long lasting and permanent damage.

Tell your relatives what you want. Honestly don’t care. But stop trying to argue against what Adoption UK say themselves! What the NHS say and adoption charities. Why do you want to bury your head in the sand instead of wanting adopted children supported and given the absolute best second chance possible?

FWIW a prospective adoptive parent in the UK who admitted to not believing in attatchment trauma would be rejected by adoption services!

Actually agood adoption experience can repair damage done by early trauma
All of this information might leave you feeling like the outlook for a child with an early trauma history is bleak. Fortunately, that doesn’t have to be the case. There is evidence that providing a child with felt safety and the opportunity for healthy attachment can help rewire the brain. Two helpful, practical resources for parents are The Whole-Brain Child by Daniel J. Seigel and Tina Payne Bryson and this website. Also, there are many support groups (physical and virtual) for adoptive parents where you can get helpful information and resources. If you are struggling to parent a child who experienced early trauma, you are not alone. Reach out. There is help and hope for you and your family
adoption.com/trauma-and-brain-development-what-adoptive-parents-should-know.

It cant be undone but can be sonewhat mitigated and a good outcome can be had with work (and an understanding of attachment). Best practice for reducing adoptive trauma includes acknowledgement of and contact with the birth mother. We do not often see this happening in these celeb surrogacy cases. The opposite in fact. People were shut down as homophobes for referring to the Daly surrogate as the childs mother

There are physiological & genetic changes that occur in infant trauma.

Understanding this is key in adoption services, and forms part of the process.

The same should apply in surrogacy