Robbie Williams and surrogacy

That's a complete fallacy. Some sex workers may be abused some may have Stockholm syndrome but some just want to do it and by not acknowledging that, you tie those women into the very damaging concept that they are all victims, that they are somehow less valuable and therefore they do not deserve proper protection. Insisting women are victims only perpetuates and encourages abuse.

Even one of the most prolific "happy hooker" public figures, the author of belle de jour, says her self that prostitution has led her to being unable to maintain relationships outside of the sex work world e.g. with family or childhood friends.

And actually, despite the fluffy TV adaptations, her writings and interviews arent always much of an advertisement for the idea of the "happy hooker"..

Are women who abuse their husbands / partners all victims of
childhood abuse ?

Its just like domestic abuse. Victims will defend their abuser whilst they are in the full haze of abuse.

^according to ex sex workers themselves

Trisher they DID consult sex workers re Leeds (as I said above!)

Problem is there is often an element of stockhold syndrome and the veil doesnt lift until women get some distance from sex work.

notanan2 I don't know why you are posting something I have acknowledged as failing. I said the problem is no one asks the experts- the women working-what would be best. Imagine if all the traffic legislation was made by someone who had never seen a car. Read what the prostitutes say.

And for labour to admit that one of their woke pet projects was a mistake, well.. it must have been REALLY bad!

All sorts of men use prostitutes, no just one sort, those who dont believe in consent.

www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/women-and-girls/disaster-day-one-end-britains-first-legal-red-light-district/

www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/women-and-girls/violence-drugs-sexual-diseases-managed-zones-prostitution-failing/

Trisher, it was in the UK zones, and they turned out to be horrific for women

Suziewoozie I think all sorts of men pay for sex. One of the shocking things I heard was on a police programme. That brothels and street workers were always busier on Thursday evenings because men brought their wives into town to shop and while they were busy paid a visit to a brothel

Serious question - why don’t men just masturbate?

Because "boys will be boys" and prostitution is seen as inevitable

suzie, thats awful. She must be unwell , surely?

I think they are a hateful predatory couple actually.

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/22/trouble-in-paradise-rise-and-fall-of-germany-brothel-king-jurgen-rudloff

notanan2 possibly because the legislation was not made in conjunction with the sex workers and in many cases was made with little knowledge and less consideration.

Or do they enjoy exploiting women?

No I am not adopted.
Adoption is a trauma. That’s recognised.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/your-adopted-childs-health-needs/
* Children adopted from care will have experienced trauma and loss, even if they were adopted shortly after birth. Some may have additional needs resulting from physical, mental or emotional problems or disabilities*

No baby should leave it’s mother. That right there is a trauma.
They then get potentially get passed to a foster carer who they are then separated from. Trauma.

It’s traumatic. It has lasting effects.
Trauma isn’t always violence and there isn’t always a perpetrator.

It is traumatic.

But stop arguing like I’m saying adoption is a bad thing. I’m not.

It’s a necessity. It’s just sad that it has to happen.

What I am against is surrogacy and egg and sperm donation. These are exploitive and selfish to the potential children.

Serious question - why don’t men just masturbate?

The other aspect here is the very short gap between the surrogates two pregnancies which flies in the face of all medical evidence in terms of what’s best for both mother and baby. Still I expect the gap suited the Williams’ social calendar

Legalised brothels are not havens of safety and choice for women.

Just as I expect there to be food standards so my food is of a good quality I would like to see standards for surrogacy. Unregulated it could like most things be dangerous

trisher the areas of UK and abroad where legalisation has happened only made things better for the men, it made conditions worse for the sex workers

Yes I know not it makes it all the more reprehensible doesn’t it.